I’m just angry now

[BathFullOfEels]

They knew a vaccine would be the only way of getting us out of this mess. The country has already been locked down twice. Why, why, why didn’t they use this time to set up the logistics of distributing and administering these vaccines?

Why, why, why are the government allowed to decide who to prioritise to receive these vaccines when they were always going to distribute in a way that benefits them. Surely any government with an ounce of realism would be self aware enough to realise that they would make this vaccine distribution a political decision and instead allow the decision to be made by an independent third party who can distribute it in a way that would allow the country to get back to work. Instead it’s likely that months and months down the line we’ll all be forced to go back to work despite still be unprotected.

I have visions of pensioners being able to swan off on holiday over the summer while the workers of the country will still be unable to.

It’s an absolute fucking farce. Watching that press conference last night just finally made it snap for me - they genuinely don’t know what they’re doing at all

As a front line member of staff in the NHS (a clinician who has to see patients in clinics and in their homes) I'm sick of hearing about NHS staff who work in offices, who have no patient contact and they've had the vaccine and I have not been offered it yet. You would think the NHS is experienced in organisation and logistics wouldn't you?

@midgebabe

Everyone has a better chance of survival from everything if the nhs is not overloaded

Yes a 65 year old might die of corona waiting to be vacinated but suppose they get the jab ahead of older people? That 65 year old will then be at more risk from cancer and car accident death because the nhs won't be able to help them

In other words it doesn't matter what kills that 65 year old . What matters is minimising their risk of death which goes up the more unvaccinated older people are out there

Yes, but the NHS is less likely to be overloaded if the staff are all vaccinated first which is not happening quickly enough as care home residents have priority. In addition very elderly care home residents are probably not what the ones overloading hospitals. They may be admitted, but not necessarily to ICU and many will die quite quickly. My relative died before the test result even came back.

@galaxybuttons

As a front line member of staff in the NHS (a clinician who has to see patients in clinics and in their homes) I'm sick of hearing about NHS staff who work in offices, who have no patient contact and they've had the vaccine and I have not been offered it yet. You would think the NHS is experienced in organisation and logistics wouldn't you?

Yes, I have heard that too. It's terrible that you haven't been vaccinated yet.

Care home residents are statistically a lot more likely to a) catch covid and b) die from covid than your dad.

Agreed.

"Care home" is all too often used when "nursing home" would be appropriate because the residents are more frail. Infection rates in congregate places is all too common.

A Sussex care home reports that half of their residents have died in a Covid outbreak since 13 Dec.

Thirteen of 27 residents at Edendale Lodge care home in Crowhurst had died with confirmed or suspected Covid since 13 December, said the home operator’s managing director, Adam Hutchison, who also runs care homes in Kent.

More than a third of the staff also tested positive during the outbreak in which residents died on Christmas Eve and Boxing Day. The latest death came on Monday this week.

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/07/covid-kills-half-of-sussex-care-homes-residents-over-christmas

I'm not sure that vaccinating the most vulnerable (i.e. the 90 year olds who will only survive a couple of months even without Covid)

And what about all the rest of the 90 year olds, the ones who still have years rather than months left? Even at 95, expected remaining life expectancy is about 3 years.

I work in a Dementia unit and if it came into the home, it would probably wipe the home out. We wear masks and keep our distance from each other as much as possible. We get tested weekly and are due our vaccinations but the residents need them before us.

@GreenlandTheMovie I think I misunderstood a part of your post and for that I am sorry.

I was addressing those in general on this thread who are wishing for young people to be vaccinated first, and the narrative I see again and again as dehumanising the old and the sick, and that's what I was calling out as sickening and will continue to do so.

@MereDintofPandiculation

I'm not sure that vaccinating the most vulnerable (i.e. the 90 year olds who will only survive a couple of months even without Covid)

And what about all the rest of the 90 year olds, the ones who still have years rather than months left? Even at 95, expected remaining life expectancy is about 3 years.

If they are in a care home they will probably not have years left of a good quality life. That tends to be why people are in care homes in the first place. Regardless, I'm not saying that they should have not have a vaccine. I'm just questioning the priority over younger extremely vulnerable people who have not had the opportunity to enjoy 90 years.

@vodkaredbullgirl

I work in a Dementia unit and if it came into the home, it would probably wipe the home out. We wear masks and keep our distance from each other as much as possible. We get tested weekly and are due our vaccinations but the residents need them before us.

Having been in care homes where people have dementia on many occasions, I have often thought I would really like to die before I get to that stage. It's awful if they can't see family, but shouldn't that be possible anyway if the staff are vaccinated?

@MereDintofPandiculation

I'm not sure that vaccinating the most vulnerable (i.e. the 90 year olds who will only survive a couple of months even without Covid)

And what about all the rest of the 90 year olds, the ones who still have years rather than months left? Even at 95, expected remaining life expectancy is about 3 years.

My grandmother (93) had the vaccine today. 🥰🥰 she's not going to be dying any time soon and we will be able to celebrate her 94th with her at the end of Feb. I'm so pleased.

She sent me a case of red wine for Xmas as she was getting one for herself and thought she might as well 🤣

@Belladonna12 having seen my grandmother end up on the dementia floor of a nursing home I'm very much in agreement with you. She didn't have dementia (delirium instead, which developed during a long hospital stay following an accident that paralysed her completely and ultimately ended her life, although sadly not swiftly enough to be kind) but what I saw when we visited her made me very very sad for the residents.

@TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross

What has brought me to breaking point (as a teacher as well as a parent) is that he refused to rule out schools staying closed for the remainder of the academic year.

I'm so angry at the whole fucking mess and so unbelievably angry at what it has done to our children. DS is in the U6 and has spent most of his sixth form - just as he should have been discovering the wider world and getting his first taste of independence - stuck in his bedroom socialising via a screen. What kind of fucking life is that? And all I've heard, week after week, recently is bleating about closing the fucking schools. Well, they've got their way now. Hope they're happy.

I agree, I would be flaming mad if I was you, It seems logical to me that the sooner that school staff and teachers are vaccinated, the sooner the schools can operate as normal.

Well, as a 64 year old who still works full-time (but currently from home) I am looking forward to getting my jab. I know things won’t get back to normal for quite a while but it’s a step in the right direction. As to who should be vaccinated first? I thought it was about protecting the NHS from overload - so those who are most likely to become so ill that they need hospitalisation need protecting first. There’ll be no ICU provision for any of us soon, then we’ll be in trouble.

It seems logical to me that the sooner that school staff and teachers are vaccinated, the sooner the schools can operate as normal.

That would be logical if the vaccine prevented school staff and teachers from catching or spreading the virus but it doesn’t. You would have a vaccinated teacher who could still catch the virus from the students or pass it onto them (to pass onto their families etc) so they still can’t operate as normal. Same argument to the PP who mentioned funeral directors. The vaccine won’t stop colleagues getting sick and needing time off, but the vaccine will mean that they don’t get quite as sick or die. But if under 50 and not CEV, they are statistically unlikely to die anyway.

On the point of care homes, these are private businesses. Who is going to move themselves or a relative into a care home if that is the best option for their care needs, if it is an unsafe environment. Care homes go bust, and then where do you go if you need care?

Our HB are vaccinating those who are more at risk from Covid if they catch it first. We all had to fill in a questionnaire that gave us a risk number based on the evidence at the time. I’m guessing they are using that? May be the same in your trust?

That would be logical if the vaccine prevented school staff and teachers from catching or spreading the virus but it doesn’t.

That's exactly what vaccines do normally. It won't be 100% but that doesn't mean it won't significantly reduce the spread. That's one of the reasons NHS staff are being vaccinated.

That would be logical if the vaccine prevented school staff and teachers from catching or spreading the virus but it doesn’t.

Schools aren’t closed because staff and teachers are getting sick. Schools are closed because the nhs is at risk of being overwhelmed by elderly and clinically vulnerable people. In order to protect the nhs we need to significantly reduce chains of transmission so that these people don’t get sick enough to overwhelm hospitals.

Vaccinating school staff first won’t keep schools open. Vaccinating the elderly and vulnerable will put the entire country in the position where it is safe enough to open schools.

Vaccinating the elderly and vulnerable benefits all of us.

People reckon the govt. have it hard, no, they have MADE this hard, they make rules, they flounce the rules, then wonder why Joe Public doesn;t follow them....they give all their friends money from the 'magic money tree' that they found somewhere, like Dildo and the Test n Trace...where the hell is that?? Anyway, I digress, this could have been sorted properly, they had the time, but they were too busy eating out on the cheap and trying to force the plebs back to work way too soon, when it would have been WAY more cost effective to ease restrictions slowly!

I blame them wholeheartedly, and I am angry too, four children in a 2 bed house with nothing around us but muddy fields that we have explored a zillion times is hard work...but as long as Boris's dad gets his vaccination (1st AND 2nd!) despite flouting the rules time and time again AND wanting to bugger orf to France, then all is well eh!

Of course @Carriecakes80 and let’s not talk about your life choices or mistakes let’s just say there should be a a vote on who gets the vaccine because they’ve lived lives you don’t like and let’s forget we are globally doing really well on vaccine delivery let’s just remember you’ve got better things to do talhan play your part

@heLacksnotluster not all over 80s have been vaccinated so rather obviously adding teachers to the top priority list would mean they would wait longer and therefore deaths and hospitalisations would reduce more slowly.
Then other groups who may come into contact with coronavirus cases could rightfully demand to be vaccinated as priority- police, undertakers, opticians.
Vaccinating teachers means that the teachers would not get coronavirus seriously but does not reduce spread amongst pupils so even if they did get it right now, then numbers probably too high to reopen schools.
Many teachers are young and not at risk of getting coronavirus seriously. Appreciate that they were in packed classrooms with no PPE or ventilation, but that doesn't mean they should be absolute top priority. Agree they should be on the priority list, but cutting deaths and hospitalisations has to be the main goal.

@FippertyGibbett

It would be nice if those giving the jab could be allowed it too.

They are. When there are leftovers at the end of the batch, healthcare staff get them.

I've given very clear instructions that if I ever get dementia or are permanently bed bound following a stroke I am not to be treated for infections but be given palliative care (and if it ever becomes possible to accelerate death I'll take that too). I'm going to need to amend those to say that in a pandemic I should still be vaccinated. That would not be for my benefit but because the bed I might take up while dying could be needed for someone else, dying with palliative care is not always a quick process.

Vaccinating teachers then getting children back to school means more widespread transmission of the virus and denies many people medical care. It is also potentially damaging the health of children long term.

If they had vaccinated all the teachers over Christmas then schools could have reopened before the end of the jan (3 weeks to confer immunity of 60_70% after 1st dose). Please explain why this can’t be done alongside the over 80s. How many school staff are there in this country?

About 1 m

Yes it can be done, but it would not have led to the reopening of schools.

Indeed t would have delayed the reopening of schools. They cannot be open safely when rates are this high, because they are vectors of community transmission, and NHS is at crisis point. Reopening will only happen when we have securely moved down from Alert 5.

The fastest way for that to happen, and for schools (and everything else) to reopen, is to vaccinate the most vulnerable. If we stick to the current priority list, then we can expect to see over 90% of deaths and many, many hospitalisations gone.

If we vax teachers, no great impact. Schools cannot reopen because community tramission makes everywhere unsafe, NHS continues in parlous state and people die from other conditions because there are no beds, and the hit to the economy is even greater.

@FippertyGibbett

My 94 year old MIL and my 77 year old DM won’t be going out after they have had their jabs, they will still have to shield. And they are now too scared to go out anyway. Therefore it seems reasonable that teachers/teaching staff have their vaccinations and keep the kids in school.

You're missing the point of why schools closed. It wasn't all to do with teachers not being protected, although that was part of it. It's mostly because this new strain is much more contagious and they think it is spreading more amongst young people. Evidence suggests Schools have bigger infection rates and with this new strain this will go through the roof amongst pupils who will then take it home to CV parents and grandparents. Fine vaccination teachers, but it won't make schools reopen immediately because the children aren't safe. I know why people can't understand that. It's another way of protecting the NHS