I’m just angry now

[BathFullOfEels]

They knew a vaccine would be the only way of getting us out of this mess. The country has already been locked down twice. Why, why, why didn’t they use this time to set up the logistics of distributing and administering these vaccines?

Why, why, why are the government allowed to decide who to prioritise to receive these vaccines when they were always going to distribute in a way that benefits them. Surely any government with an ounce of realism would be self aware enough to realise that they would make this vaccine distribution a political decision and instead allow the decision to be made by an independent third party who can distribute it in a way that would allow the country to get back to work. Instead it’s likely that months and months down the line we’ll all be forced to go back to work despite still be unprotected.

I have visions of pensioners being able to swan off on holiday over the summer while the workers of the country will still be unable to.

It’s an absolute fucking farce. Watching that press conference last night just finally made it snap for me - they genuinely don’t know what they’re doing at all

It's not really about whether an 80 year old has right to protection at the expense of a younger person.

We have an NHS which is expected to treat sick people. I think everyone would struggle with the idea that the NHS deny care to an elderly person with covid and instead simply tell them to get on and die untreated and in pain gasping to breathe at home.

So the strategy is simply to make sure the NHS can treat those who are very sick with covid.

That strategy is best achieved by vaccinating those most likely to get that degree of sickness.

And as a plus once they are all vaccinated the rest of us who are generally low risk can get back to normal as very few of us working age healthy people are likely to need hospital care if we get covid. Of course some of us will, though, and because all the most vulnerable are vaccinated we can be confident the NHS will have the space to look after us.

Plus the point about reducing covid admissions to allow the NHS to get on with testing all the other sickness out there

Seems very clear to me that the vaccination strategy is absolutely the right one.

Far from being a cock up (which we have come to expect from this government) I think they are doing well on this aspect. I think it's brilliant we have two vaccines that are being widely rolled out and a sensible strategy.

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind I completely understand your points and am sorry you've had so much heartache. I'm not intending to compare the elderly with the young, more the vulnerable with the less vulnerable. It's obviously not an exact science, but the over 80s (as well as other groups) are considered more vulnerable. We know that covid can have terrible consequences for any age, but I think we also know that the vulnerable are more at risk here. I do think an 80+ yo (incl a relatively healthy one) getting the vaccine is more important than a healthy 5yo for the reasons already mentioned.
Anyway Ive got to go, got my lockdown birthday to go and celebrate, obvs not breaking any rules!

@Bumpsadaisie

It's not really about whether an 80 year old has right to protection at the expense of a younger person.

We have an NHS which is expected to treat sick people. I think everyone would struggle with the idea that the NHS deny care to an elderly person with covid and instead simply tell them to get on and die untreated and in pain gasping to breathe at home.

So the strategy is simply to make sure the NHS can treat those who are very sick with covid.

That strategy is best achieved by vaccinating those most likely to get that degree of sickness.

And as a plus once they are all vaccinated the rest of us who are generally low risk can get back to normal as very few of us working age healthy people are likely to need hospital care if we get covid. Of course some of us will, though, and because all the most vulnerable are vaccinated we can be confident the NHS will have the space to look after us.

This.

[quote JBo2]@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind I completely understand your points and am sorry you've had so much heartache. I'm not intending to compare the elderly with the young, more the vulnerable with the less vulnerable. It's obviously not an exact science, but the over 80s (as well as other groups) are considered more vulnerable. We know that covid can have terrible consequences for any age, but I think we also know that the vulnerable are more at risk here. I do think an 80+ yo (incl a relatively healthy one) getting the vaccine is more important than a healthy 5yo for the reasons already mentioned.
Anyway Ive got to go, got my lockdown birthday to go and celebrate, obvs not breaking any rules![/quote]
The 5 year old can't have the vaccine obviously @JBo2 but if their parent is one of the unlucky ones who die without the vaccine then i just think the impact is far worse and far greater. I just hope they can get the vaccine rolled out as quickly as possible (wouldn't it be marvellous if they actually over-deliver by some miracle for once!)

Perhaps it would also be good if once the elderly are vaccinated the young, even when catching it, will be able to benefit from much better treatment in hospital. I'm just dreading seeing those stories of join children losing their parents when their great grandparents have been vaccinated! Let's just pray it doesn't happen, god knows how but let's hope.

It's just a shitty shitty situation that no one wanted, no one wants anyone to die from this. I'll admit that as soon as things open up, even if I'm unvaccinated I'll be living life to the full, I just hope my DC don't suffer for this but they'll end up with a mother with very poor mental health if I don't. Im very very glad to see that younger ECV people will have had the vaccine very soon. That is fantastic news too.

@hopsalong

This is not personal, it's structural

Believe me, it will become personal soon enough if people don't rein it in and stop hailing redistribution bollocks and resucitating former leaders who have hardly 'meliorated' living conditions in other countries when they had their chance.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is either very naive or, most likely has an agenda

Perhaps it would also be good if once the elderly are vaccinated the young, even when catching it, will be able to benefit from much better treatment in hospital. I'm just dreading seeing those stories of join children losing their parents when their great grandparents have been vaccinated! Let's just pray it doesn't happen, god knows how but let's hope.

Unfortunately, there will be stories about middle-aged people dying of Covid because they didn't get a vaccine unlike their parents. It is true that those designated ECV will get the vaccine in a few months, but many of those in the vulnerable group probably aren't much less vulnerable (if at all) goodness knows when they will get it. I have seen studies where they have compared people with certain conditions according to whether they were put in the ECV or CV group and there wasn't much difference in mortality.

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind

Just wanted to thank you for your recent sensible posts, I agree with everything you say.

@hopsalong

There's a really important debate to be had

I'm amazed how people from certain strata can think they (and their children) are not going to be most adversely affected by the inequality rethoric and resulting social unrest they are contributing to fuel.

Think about it. It's beyond foolish to believe it's not personal and that you will be immune.

I have visions of pensioners being able to swan off on holiday over the summer while the workers of the country will still be unable to

It isnt actually about old people swanning off on holiday. t is about the fact that the reason the NHS is getting overwhelmed is because so may older people are ending up in hospital...they are the most likely to end up there if they catch it and also the most likely to end up needing intensive or extended care ...which is why the NHS is at risk of being overwhelmed

because the old are more likely to die???? i wouldnt want the vaccine before my dad who is in his 70's with a serious lung condition

We all have an opinion. Mine is why are care homes getting it first, should have been over 80s who live in own homes and go shopping/walks. Like my Dad. Secondly why has Surrey managed to get all done, why has Boris Johnsons Dad had two, Lionel Blair and Rupert Murdoch, yet my Dad at 89 has been told 2 -3 weeks yet?? Why are 70 yr olds in some areas getting it and he hasn't had a whiff?? I am angry about this, fuming. THirdly as the mother of a secondary school teacher, why are teachers not as high up as doctors as they are at more risk than most others, statistically. Its all crap and I bet the leeches in the royal family have ALL been done. What makes them any more important, nothing.

@trulydelicious Just no! My comment about ‘meliorated enough’ was meant to be humorous as it has no meaning.

Do read Hopsalong’s description of melioration. I think she is right that we may have gone as far as we can in terms of advancing living standards and life expectancy. I don’t think anyone on this thread expects to be personally immune from the difficulties which are coming.

BathFullOfEels Wed 06-Jan-21 07:54:42

I have visions of pensioners being able to swan off on holiday over the summer while the workers of the country will still be unable to

And so they should, having worked all their lives and raised families, paid their taxes and national insurance, they don't have lots of years left to enjoy themselves and have earned their retirement. You are unbelievable, do you want to euthanise all the over 65s?? You think you are more entitled to a holiday than them? Why, because you are younger, you (unless you die young) will be old one day and I hope you are treated with the lack of empathy you show here.

Why the need to drive 5 miles?

are now sticking to walks nearer their homes

Mission accomplished then?

Wrong thread, sorry

@Belladonna12 of course you do that's why you can't get the name right 🙄

[quote Rachel1874]@Belladonna12 of course you do that's why you can't get the name right 🙄[/quote]
What are you talking about?

I agree , while I agree children and teachers should be given it , its not fair to get angry at the elderly , it's not their fault , so therefore should not get anger directed at them. I have seen so many elderly frightened by this Covid , as afterall they are the ones at most risk of being highly affected should they catch it. Is there really a fair way to roll this vaccine out though with limited amount of vaccines? Such a hard decision to make as there will always be some to be the last to receive.

@Belladonna12

Perhaps it would also be good if once the elderly are vaccinated the young, even when catching it, will be able to benefit from much better treatment in hospital. I'm just dreading seeing those stories of join children losing their parents when their great grandparents have been vaccinated! Let's just pray it doesn't happen, god knows how but let's hope.

Unfortunately, there will be stories about middle-aged people dying of Covid because they didn't get a vaccine unlike their parents. It is true that those designated ECV will get the vaccine in a few months, but many of those in the vulnerable group probably aren't much less vulnerable (if at all) goodness knows when they will get it. I have seen studies where they have compared people with certain conditions according to whether they were put in the ECV or CV group and there wasn't much difference in mortality.

@Belladonna12 those are also the kind of stories I'm imagining. It's horrendous to think about.

I just don't believe it's purely about number of lives lost, it's about who is dying as well and the impact to society, to families, to children, of those deaths. I can't imagine what is left of life for those 90 year olds who have been vaccinated is going to be very pleasant if their 65 year old adult child ends up dying of coronavirus. It's my biggest fear in life, my children dying before me.

It's so so complicated and it's nothing to do with hatred of the elderly to point these things out. I get tired of that being thrown around all the time. Sometimes there are horrible ageist posts on here but wondering about certain things with regards to vaccination is not ageist.

It makes no difference, the priority list is what it is. I don't care about getting the vaccine particularly, and if I didn't have children I don't think I'd be that bothered about whether I get corona and live or die quite frankly. That is what the pandemic, on top of finally escaping an abusive relationship and trying to rebuild life, only to have so much of it go down the drain over the last year, has done to me.

Everyone has a better chance of survival from everything if the nhs is not overloaded

Yes a 65 year old might die of corona waiting to be vacinated but suppose they get the jab ahead of older people? That 65 year old will then be at more risk from cancer and car accident death because the nhs won't be able to help them

In other words it doesn't matter what kills that 65 year old . What matters is minimising their risk of death which goes up the more unvaccinated older people are out there

@amispeakingenglish

We all have an opinion. Mine is why are care homes getting it first, should have been over 80s who live in own homes and go shopping/walks. Like my Dad. Secondly why has Surrey managed to get all done, why has Boris Johnsons Dad had two, Lionel Blair and Rupert Murdoch, yet my Dad at 89 has been told 2 -3 weeks yet?? Why are 70 yr olds in some areas getting it and he hasn't had a whiff?? I am angry about this, fuming. THirdly as the mother of a secondary school teacher, why are teachers not as high up as doctors as they are at more risk than most others, statistically. Its all crap and I bet the leeches in the royal family have ALL been done. What makes them any more important, nothing.

Care home residents are statistically a lot more likely to a) catch covid and b) die from covid than your dad. They have multiple members of staff coming into the building where they live everyday and those members of staff are a not able to socially distance from them when delivering care.

If they were healthy enough to go to the shops like your dad they wouldn’t need a care home. They are a lot more vulnerable than he is.

Your dad will get his vaccine soon.