I’m just angry now

[BathFullOfEels]

They knew a vaccine would be the only way of getting us out of this mess. The country has already been locked down twice. Why, why, why didn’t they use this time to set up the logistics of distributing and administering these vaccines?

Why, why, why are the government allowed to decide who to prioritise to receive these vaccines when they were always going to distribute in a way that benefits them. Surely any government with an ounce of realism would be self aware enough to realise that they would make this vaccine distribution a political decision and instead allow the decision to be made by an independent third party who can distribute it in a way that would allow the country to get back to work. Instead it’s likely that months and months down the line we’ll all be forced to go back to work despite still be unprotected.

I have visions of pensioners being able to swan off on holiday over the summer while the workers of the country will still be unable to.

It’s an absolute fucking farce. Watching that press conference last night just finally made it snap for me - they genuinely don’t know what they’re doing at all

Dont see why they are doing it in age groups rather then everyone. Although if your talking about going first it should be CEV but that won’t happen so should be the older generation which to me is over 60.

But all those over 60 would still have to be "sorted" to establish who goes first - what criteria are you going to use to do that? Personally I think by age - oldest first - is a good way.

I've just come back to this thread after a lovely walk and a chat with my 83 year old neighbour. She's a lively woman who plays golf, loves theatre and loves life. She's currently lonely and missing her family and friends. It brings tears to my eyes that some of you would not give her life the value it deserves. The elderly matter and as those most at risk, they need the vaccine.

You all say they still have to shield after the the jab yet 70k people hve still died with shielding etc.... Once they are vaccinated case number will be irrelevant as long as deaths and hospitalisation are low... Vaccination g working age people will not drive down deaths.

Do you intend to trust the numbers generated by individual or do you expect doctors to generate a personalised risk number for everyone?
How long do you give people to upload the data? Obviously it takes a while for 70 million people to add thier details to a database

I realise this was just a suggestion rather than policy, but for pity's sake let's not go down the route of another new government-generated database ... not with what's happened with too many others

@annevonkleve

hopefully we can all be old one day

not sure I want to end up like MIL, or indeed my own father who spent the last six months of his life bedbound in a nursing home.

That’s end of life though not just older age.

Retirement age is going to be 67 or 68 for most of us. That’s the age you can stop work and start enjoying life!

@Funneth

Not everyone will be vaccinated, the government are deliberately letting infection rates peak before they start each lockdown to ensure there is as much natural immunity as there is from the vaccines, because it's cheaper. Eventually, it will.not spread as easily and I reckon each winter it'll be a recommended update jab for the CV like the flu jab is.

If we're moaning about the elderly, which I can see some argument for, let's remember that due to this government's economic policy over the last decade, our life average expectancy has significantly dropped so there aren't as many of them if that makes you feel any better.

Yes, because it's much cheaper to pay furlough etc for millions of people, than a vaccine

Idiot

Those “most likely to end up in hospital” need to be vaccinated first. The trouble is this virus is a bit like Russian roulette. Initially, the data suggested age is the main risk factor so vaccination lists were drawn up on that basis.
They managed to vaccinate a large part of the population with the flu jab in the autumn quickly and efficiently and my suggestion would be to just follow those lists and involve those vaccinators including pharmacies, assuming we have enough vaccines stock. As far as I can tell we are in a real race against time here hence the shift to 1 dose vaccination. I reckon they know the virus could mutate further and cause much more havoc so just vaccinate as many people as possible as quickly as possible. Forget the politics of are you 75 or 80. If you know you have enough doses, vaccinate all the elderly in an efficient manner. Some 85 year olds are fitter than some 70 year old anyway.

@Bohemiagirl

I've just come back to this thread after a lovely walk and a chat with my 83 year old neighbour. She's a lively woman who plays golf, loves theatre and loves life. She's currently lonely and missing her family and friends. It brings tears to my eyes that some of you would not give her life the value it deserves. The elderly matter and as those most at risk, they need the vaccine.

They do need the vaccine but whether or not they are automatically the most at risk is more debatable. I strongly feel that younger extremely vulnerable people should be vaccinated first. They have also had to put up with staying indoors and shielding, they often have suffered loss of earnings or they work with the risk that involves and unlike your neighbour they haven't enjoyed 83 years already.

Belladonna you are correct, I didn't mean to imply that the elderly are more in need than the clinically vulnerable. They should also be priority for the vaccine.

@Thingybob the system you’re suggesting would be incredibly open to abuse as people Would lie. It was also lead to the isolated and lonely becoming more isolated and lonely.

@CountessFrog

I think people are fundamentally upset because they don’t understand the complexities.

Even fairly intelligent people I know see the issue as removing all our liberties, destroying childhoods in order to prevent really elderly people from dying.

The issue is actually way more complex, but it seems to centre around those same very elderly people needing to use hospitals if they get sick. They won’t be considered for ITU, that’s not the issue, the issue is that ambulances will be called and beds taken up. I don’t know what their chances of survival are? I don’t know how many 80 year olds with covid are eventually discharged from hospital fit and well?

Because presumably that’s why you admit them in the first place; because there’s consensus that a hospital admission, however prolonged, will see them restored to health and living many more years.

I have a issue with this because I don’t know the data and I’m not sure it’s true. If we assume it’s not true, if these very elderly people don’t survive, (and there seems to be evidence that a lot of very old people die from this disease) why are they being admitted to hospital in an ambulance in the first place? Why aren’t we reorganising ourselves and taking care to them rather than bringing them into hospital? Why are we overwhelming our ambulance and hospital services if the outcome of this effort will be poor for them?

The answer is probably something to do with it being unethical and distasteful to have a grown up conversation about refusing hospital access to very elderly patients, regardless of the outcome.

It does however appear to be considered ethical to steal children’s developmental years, ruin their mental heath, rob them of experiences and joy.

Why is that?

Yeah fuck the old people, how dare they need medical care.

After all trying to minimise their chance of death may ROB A CHILD OF AN EXPERIENCE OR SOME FUCKING JOY

You are a disgusting disgusting person

Some of the opinions being expressed here are so abhorrent I feel physically disgusted. I’ve faced some pretty difficult things in my life, including during this pandemic, but honestly I never knew how deeply rotten so many people are. And lacking in intelligence. It’s eye opening, and truly shocking.

@PinkTonic I agree

I studied the holocaust as a teen and I could never really understand how it could happen. I dont mean the people driving it, the big evil, but the ordinary, every day people who ignored it, or made life difficult for their colleagues and neighbours out of petty bigotry or small personal gain and who later watched (or helped) as they were rounded up. Well now I understand it. So many people happy to dispose of a whole section of society out of spite and convenience.

I totally agree with the current JCVI priority list. I think they are hoping to get through all 9 categories of the most at risk by Easter so it should only be a few weeks difference between the different categories.
When it comes to the under 50’s, then I think the priority should be based on occupation with teachers and police officers etc near the top.

@PinkTonic. I’m feeling the same. I was already feeling disheartened by some people’s attitudes and lack of understanding but this particular thread has been a real eye opener.
At the least OP came back to admit that she understood the rationale for the prioritisation a bit more now. Other posters on this thread have proven themselves to be incredibly hard of thinking and callous to boot.

I give up. I really didn’t realise that there are quite so many idiots about.

This is the JCVI rationale for priority order:
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/948353/Priority_groups_for_coronavirus__COVID-19__vaccination_-_advice_from_the_JCVI__2_December_2020.pdf
vaccinating the 9 priority groups will reduce deaths will by 99%

Christ you people.

The list has been drawn up. Get over it

[quote Porcupineintherough]@PinkTonic I agree

I studied the holocaust as a teen and I could never really understand how it could happen. I dont mean the people driving it, the big evil, but the ordinary, every day people who ignored it, or made life difficult for their colleagues and neighbours out of petty bigotry or small personal gain and who later watched (or helped) as they were rounded up. Well now I understand it. So many people happy to dispose of a whole section of society out of spite and convenience. [/quote]
We had a similar discussion recently after watching some netflix nazi/holocaust films. Whereas before I would watch and wonder how a society not unlike our own could treat fellow citizens, this time now I could. I find some attitudes chilling.

Retirement age will certainly be increased to help pay for this debt. I reckon once Rishi is in a position to look into how it’s going to be paid back, he will definitely be looking at raising retirement to 70/72 yrs old. So we best all keep as fit as we can, as according to some on this thread we will have one foot in the grave at 70.

@PinkTonic I was thinking that the other day about the Holocaust. It also makes sense of why so many flat out denied it was happening, they simply wouldn't listen to facts because it was too big and scary, and I honestly think that's the case with some of the deniers here.

I actually think we are seeing a bit of a paradigm shift here in society's view of the old and the sick and it is worrying me very deeply indeed. There were fertile grounds for it under the Tory austerity agenda, the rhetoric of the scroungers, the strivers and the skivers, the deserving and the undeserving. I believe covid is accelerating that narrative and I will call it out where I see it and continue to do that. Those of you who dismiss the old and sick so easily, please think about what you are actually saying and what you are contributing too in terms of group think here. The interesting thing is that so many minimisers do it out of a purported concern for the vulnerable in terms of mental health and cancer patients, but fail to understand the irony that those very people are most often not counted among the young and healthy who died of Covid, the much vaunted 388 who matter. So when people with MH illness and cancer are not counted, they don't really matter at all, do they.

Only when they suit a certain agenda.

It's chilling and I will not be quiet and told that I am hysterical.

50% of the population are below average intelligence.

@Livelovebehappy

Retirement age will certainly be increased to help pay for this debt. I reckon once Rishi is in a position to look into how it’s going to be paid back, he will definitely be looking at raising retirement to 70/72 yrs old. So we best all keep as fit as we can, as according to some on this thread we will have one foot in the grave at 70.

Well at least if we’re all still at work we won’t be causing mayhem at the garden centre, milling about with our pull along shopping bags and scoffing all the coffee and walnut cake 🙄

We’ll probably be castigated for taking all their jobs instead though.

@endofthelinefinally

50% of the population are below average intelligence.

The really worrying thing is that that’s a controversial thing to say 😂

Only 50%???

50% of the population are below average intelligence

Isn't that the nature of averages - or perhaps that should be "means"; I always get them mixed up

Either way I'd love to hear you say it in the inner city area where I visited a specialist supermarket today. Not just the supermarket but every single shop on the road was open - clothing, furniture, cafes, beauty, hairdressers, you name it

Good luck policing all of that ...