I’m just angry now

[BathFullOfEels]

They knew a vaccine would be the only way of getting us out of this mess. The country has already been locked down twice. Why, why, why didn’t they use this time to set up the logistics of distributing and administering these vaccines?

Why, why, why are the government allowed to decide who to prioritise to receive these vaccines when they were always going to distribute in a way that benefits them. Surely any government with an ounce of realism would be self aware enough to realise that they would make this vaccine distribution a political decision and instead allow the decision to be made by an independent third party who can distribute it in a way that would allow the country to get back to work. Instead it’s likely that months and months down the line we’ll all be forced to go back to work despite still be unprotected.

I have visions of pensioners being able to swan off on holiday over the summer while the workers of the country will still be unable to.

It’s an absolute fucking farce. Watching that press conference last night just finally made it snap for me - they genuinely don’t know what they’re doing at all

@Puzzledandpissedoff the nhs has not had to deal with something like this across the country ever

There are people whose schooling has been disrupted for years because of war, who have made a success of their lives and careers subsequently. Those are people who had no access to education at all, but have made their own opportunities. Schools are open, work is being set and marked, lessons are planned; just not always in the way we’ve been used to.

All lives are valuable and yet again, Mumsnet has demonstrated its ageism and complete disregard for an entire generation. Not everyone over the age of 60 is sitting in an armchair gently declining. Some of us have a use both in our communities and to our families.

I have followed all expectations and will continue to do so, but will not be cast aside by folk whose selfishness and self interest precludes them from considering anyone but themselves and their own wants.

As PPs mention, Indonesia is vaccinating WA people first but it is a very different set of circumstances and not even vaguely the same prevalence rate and using a vaccine tested on a narrower age range:

www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-indonesia-explaine/why-indonesia-is-vaccinating-its-working-population-first-not-elderly-idUSKBN2990MX]]

@Mincepiehangover have you even read the thread ? Numerous people have posted why and why the other way would not work but still you think it should be young first

@GreenlandTheMovie

Can anyone explain to me the urgency in vaccinating 80+ people in a country in which the Liverpool Pathway and DNR orders are imposed upon people without their or their relatives' permission with remarkable frequency?

Read through the thread. It's been explained countless times.

[quote donewithitalltodayandxmas]@Thingybob have you not read any thread that explains the order and understood ? If they gave it the other way round we would not all be protected and if the nhs collapsed we would not be protected [/quote]
Yes I have read it but nobody has addressed my point that it is preferable for the elderly that can shield to shield. That would still protect the NHS and save it from collapsing leaving the available vaccines for the (at risk) working age population.

@Foxyloxy1plus1 my mum is 64 and still going out to work serving members of the public daily as she has to work as no pension until 66 so at risk everyday and she will be after over 70's , cev etc but isn't complaining like some of the 30/40 year olds on here

@Thingybob what so you mean by shield ? No one can fully shield from the world , do you not get that
They cannot be locked at home for months or years , when you have 50000 -60000 a day getting the virus it will take months

@GreenlandTheMovie

Can anyone explain to me the urgency in vaccinating 80+ people in a country in which the Liverpool Pathway and DNR orders are imposed upon people without their or their relatives' permission with remarkable frequency?

Yes, you just need to read this thread and all will be revealed. It has been explained very clearly many times during it.

@Thingybob cev people are in the top bans to receive before others

Thingybob how many elderly can totally sheild Not see anyone not have any careers get their own shopping delivered by ordering on line
Care has been taken but they are obviously still catching the virus

My mum is 80, is independent, active, lives in her own home and is young in her attitude and outlook. As a TA myself, I think it should be :

NHS staff
Care Workers
Cev and cv
80+who are in the community
70+who are in the community
Teachers and support staff
Retail and all front facing staff
Elderly in care homes
General public
This is NOT because I don't value the lives of the elderly in care homes. I absolutely do but if the staff in homes are vaccinated that immediately makes their clients safer. I just can't understand why the people who CAN'T spread it in the community are being vaccinated first versus those who can.

@ILoveAllRainbowsx

The problem is that there are too many people who think that everyone should get the same treatment regardless of age.

I think that once you are 80, you have been very lucky and that you should not get treatment if there are younger people who need treatment.

You have so missed the point.

Everyone should get the treatment they deserve regardless of age, gender, ethnicity, disability, or any other extraneous factor. The minute we start reserving treatment for those deemed "worth it" we are on dangerous ground. So we shouldn't treat an 80 year old? Well why treat children with disabilities whose life expectancy isn't good - if they won't live to be productive workers, are they also a waste of space? That may be the sort of society you'd like to live in, but it isn't one most people would like.

These kind of glib statements about who you are willing to sacrifice always seem to be at someone else's expense. Funny how nobody is saying that in the event of themselves or their children being seriously ill, they are willing to forego any treatment for the greater good. But they are willing to throw everyone else under the bus.

@Puzzledandpissedoff

There's plenty of criticism of the NHS bu we have been fortunate to have excellent, emergency and routine health care at our feet and available to all

It's hard to credit that you seem to be believe this is still the case, mrshoho, and that we're only "close to" losing it, but I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one

I can only assume you have a very limited life experience to not understand how privileged and fortunate we have been to have up till now a health service that has been available to all.

The nhs has not had to deal with something like this across the country ever

I agree completely, but it's not the suggestion I was addressing - which was that routine healthcare was at our feet and still available to all, and that we're only "close to" losing it

You'll find no bigger admirer of the principle of the NHS than myself, but not of the reality - and that applied before anyone ever heard of Covid

[quote donewithitalltodayandxmas]@Foxyloxy1plus1 my mum is 64 and still going out to work serving members of the public daily as she has to work as no pension until 66 so at risk everyday and she will be after over 70's , cev etc but isn't complaining like some of the 30/40 year olds on here [/quote]
I think what some of us our saying is that people like your Mum should be prioritised over 80 year olds that could stay at home independently.

Mumsnet was all "protect the vulnerable and let the rest of us get on with our lives" until it was actually possible to protect the vulnerable.

Well you got on with your lives and it wasnt possible to protect the vulnerable, the virus got into care homes, it reached the grandparents doing unpaid childcare. A fair number died and health care is on its knees trying to stop even more dying. But now it's possible to do something about that it's quite clear your only concern is yourself.

👏👏👏👏👏👏

@Bbq1

My mum is 80, is independent, active, lives in her own home and is young in her attitude and outlook. As a TA myself, I think it should be :

NHS staff
Care Workers
Cev and cv
80+who are in the community
70+who are in the community
Teachers and support staff
Retail and all front facing staff
Elderly in care homes
General public
This is NOT because I don't value the lives of the elderly in care homes. I absolutely do but if the staff in homes are vaccinated that immediately makes their clients safer. I just can't understand why the people who CAN'T spread it in the community are being vaccinated first versus those who can.

No, vaccinating the staff does not make care home residents safer. It is not known whether the vaccine prevents transmission, it is thought it does not. Therefore care home residents remain vulnerable.

@Flaxmeadow

The hatred towards elderly people on here is mind blowing

It is, isn't it. I know nothing should surprise me now, but threads like this leave me so depressed. Hopefully all these people will reach a good old age and I would love to see how they feel about it then - dismissed and disregarded.

All the elderly people I know are either shielding, or being very, very careful. Three of my neighbours are caring for a partner who is ill, frail, has dementia or other condition. They have had a miserable time with reduced services and no family support.
I have been shielding since February and I am more scared now than at any time previously because I know there are no beds/staff available if I get ill now. So I am delighted that the people most likely to need hospitalisation with covid are getting their vaccination first, so that the rest of us will be able to access health care.
Meanwhile, I continue to shield and wait my turn. I worked in the NHS for 40 years and became seriously ill just before I had to retire.

Everyone should get the treatment they deserve regardless of age, gender, ethnicity, disability, or any other extraneous factor. The minute we start reserving treatment for those deemed "worth it" we are on dangerous ground. So we shouldn't treat an 80 year old? Well why treat children with disabilities whose life expectancy isn't good - if they won't live to be productive workers, are they also a waste of space? That may be the sort of society you'd like to live in, but it isn't one most people would like.

They do take into account people's quality of life and how many life years they will get from treatment all the time though.

The NHS has not been funded at an appropriate levels for years now. It delivers value for money and would do better if fully funded.

Now it is on its knees but instead of focusing on the result of underfunding some want to put the boot it.

This is reality www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/health-55540701

No, vaccinating the staff does not make care home residents safer. It is not known whether the vaccine prevents transmission, it is thought it does not. Therefore care home residents remain vulnerable.

It will prevent or very much reduce transmission if the person who was vaccinated becomes immune.

@Thingybob My parents are shielded. They still have to have carers in three times every day because they are not able to take care of themselves.

Even with PPE that is still a risk three times a day. They also have to have their cleaner in every couple of weeks at least because they can no longer manage that themselves either. The cleaner also does their weekly supermarket shopping.

There is no such thing as 100% shielding and zero risk. Only minimising. Sometimes a dose of realism is needed.

@1dayatatime

Because if the Government said back in March that the restrictions would be in place for at least a year then a lot of people would have refused

No one (including the UK Government or any other one globally ) knew in March how the situation would evolve. It's not like the government would withhold this piece of information at that point, it's ridiculous