I’m just angry now

[BathFullOfEels]

They knew a vaccine would be the only way of getting us out of this mess. The country has already been locked down twice. Why, why, why didn’t they use this time to set up the logistics of distributing and administering these vaccines?

Why, why, why are the government allowed to decide who to prioritise to receive these vaccines when they were always going to distribute in a way that benefits them. Surely any government with an ounce of realism would be self aware enough to realise that they would make this vaccine distribution a political decision and instead allow the decision to be made by an independent third party who can distribute it in a way that would allow the country to get back to work. Instead it’s likely that months and months down the line we’ll all be forced to go back to work despite still be unprotected.

I have visions of pensioners being able to swan off on holiday over the summer while the workers of the country will still be unable to.

It’s an absolute fucking farce. Watching that press conference last night just finally made it snap for me - they genuinely don’t know what they’re doing at all

@Scbchl

My mum says NHS workers and teachers and children should be first priority as that will allow parents who are low risk to get back to work and children to get their education. She doesnt feel elderly should be priority.

It won’t.

Schools aren’t off because of risk to teachers.

@burntpinky but they are/ were ready for the vaccine as much as possible. Can't stand this government, but they actually made the right gamble on which vaccines to order, made the right decision on not going in with the EU to order vaccines (I'm a 100% remainer), are well ahead of other European countries (and most others across the world) and many other countries are now seriously considering following the roll out with a longer gap between vaccines because it makes scientific and mathematical sense.

Yes, there may be some areas that may slow things down, like lack of vials and the general production - but this is for the manufacturers to sort. We should be absolutely celebrating that the vaccines we do have are being distributeted as quickly as is humanly possible thanks to the amazing work of the NHS, GPs and volunteers.

Why can't we just say - wow, the UK is doing amazingly well with vaccines that most thought weren't even going to be invented until late 2021 at the earliest, with lots saying just one would never be found.

[quote mrshoho]**@SeriouslymoleI feel like we are sacrificing an entire generation on the alter of the NHS.

I've read this continually on here since March and it's untrue hyperbole.

If you can't cope with what is going on now you really wouldn't like to be left with a country without a safe and functioning NHS service.[/quote]
No, I wouldn't (although I would support partial privatisation - I will now expect a huge amount of drama) but how on earth do you anticipate that we carrying on funding the NHS without a functioning economy and indeed staffing it in future generations with an under-education population?

And also, it is not hyperbole. Do you not fear for your children in their total lack of social interaction? The fact that they are now on screens more than they aren't? If you don't then you need to perhaps be looking at things a bit more deeply.

@Scbchl is your mum a professor in science ? As her way of doing would have the opposite effect.

@BathFullOfEels

You are way off the mark here. If left to their own devices, given their previous form, do you not think that the Conservatives would have pandered to the business world "for the sake of the economy" to get the vast majority of this countries employees back to work under the guise of generating sufficient funds to cope with the care of the more vulnerable.

They are instead following the JCVI recommendations on minimising deaths.

Those "pensioners being able to swan off on holiday" have far less years ahead of them than most of us but you begrudge them that ?

They were once workers too you know.

[quote mrshoho]**@SeriouslymoleI feel like we are sacrificing an entire generation on the alter of the NHS.

I've read this continually on here since March and it's untrue hyperbole.

If you can't cope with what is going on now you really wouldn't like to be left with a country without a safe and functioning NHS service.[/quote]
This ^

Thanks @BigWoollyJumpers I think we all need a bit of reassurance, confidence level are low and emotions and running high.

@Ponypizzy

Well if you are happy with progress good for you. I’m not, my opinion and yes I have looked at the stats.

I suspect what ever the government did even vaccinated the whole population by April it wouldn't be good enough for some The NHS are rolling out this vaccine so perhaps its them you should complain to

Lots of people are angry for all kinds of different reasons. It is a very difficult situation for many. I would certainly not have closed schools and universities.

@Scbchl

My mum says NHS workers and teachers and children should be first priority as that will allow parents who are low risk to get back to work and children to get their education. She doesnt feel elderly should be priority.

What relevance has your Mum's opinion got? Vaccine rollout has been advised by the JCVI , and the government has (very wisely) decided to accept and follow their advice.

@Seriouslymole mine haven't been on screens for the whole year in the summer we went out to beaches etc and they also were at school sept - dec and back at sports etc , they go out for runs and even now can meet up with one friend for A run or bike ride as exercise.
Yes its been shit for them but at 15 & 17 they understand why the vaccines are being given as they are , and in general they haven't moaned too much
Yes they want to be able to get back to some normality but they see the bigger picture

Wow what a thread! Who do you think has funded the NHS up until now? - Yes us oldies who have been working for nigh on 50 years. I have worked in education for 30+ years in post-16. Having seen the way our students have behaved during this time, there is no doubt in my mind why the virus is spreading - giving them the vaccine will increase their feeling of 'we are ok, sod the rest'. As for 5 year olds having their whole lives ruined, how about teaching them resilience, empathy and strength of character instead of treating them like snowflakes.

I would certainly not have closed schools and universities.

Based on what?

Sorry no, I think you are wrong on prioritising (most) workers. People over 70 or clinically extremely vulnerable account for 93% of deaths. Include all those over 50 and you have 99% of deaths. Once those people are vaccinated then restrictions can be lifted on the rest of us. I saw it calculated that it takes 20 vaccinations to prevent one covid death in a care home, and 87,000 vaccinations to prevent one covid death in an under 50 yr old (not vulnerable)>

Looking at the statistics for Scotland (which is what I have to hand). 62.3% of all hospital admissions for covid have been people older than 65. Vaccinating this age group would mean that they might still get and transmit COVID but the disease would be less serious and there would be far fewer hospital admissions. If 75% of the 45-65 age group is included (estimating the number of over 50's admitted to hospital) this accounts for 83% of all hospital admissions. If these were eliminated that would mean that there would currently be about 229 people in hospital with COVID in Scotland, rather than 1347 and about 16 in ICU rather than 93.

Vaccinating the working population would account for about 15% of the hospital admissions, reducing the number to 1145. Since some of those working age people would be vaccinated as either care workers, NHS staff or clinically vulnerable this is an overestimate of the effect of working age vaccination.

Once the most vulnerable part of the population, the over 50's are vaccinated everyone will be in the position where they are much less likely to be seriously ill if they catch COVID and the restrictions should be able to be relaxed, even if it is still circulating.

I haven't accounted for the efficacy of the vaccine in these calculations, these assume 100% effectiveness.

Why, why, why didn’t they use this time to set up the logistics of distributing and administering these vaccines?

Because their overall incompetence, allied to a complete lack of accountability, means the time will have been spent in committee meetings talking about what to do rather than actually doing it?

But again - if the government had actually used the time in either of the previous lockdowns to actually staff Nightingale Hospitals or, even better, get a supply chain in place for the vaccination this wouldn’t be much of an issue.
This. They also could have spent all the money they pissed up the wall on EOTHO on ensuring a stable production line of the vaccine once approved and improving NHS facilities. Fast tracking ventilation training to forces medics and immunisation training to all student nurses so that the student medical population could be used in the immunisation programme and forces medical staff deployed to ITUs

I really hate how this pandemic has pitted group against group - old against young, teachers against nurses, furloughed against unemployed. The virus, the health impacts, its economic consequences, how it affects mental health etc. applies to everyone. It's not a competition.

my dgc (early primary) are doing OK. They miss their friends but they're at an age where they can learn from everyday experiences.

my dc are really struggling with wfh and home-schooling and the relentlessness of a family in a small home. One of my dc has had to reduce their work hours because it was impossible otherwise.

My friend's teenage dc has crippling mental health issues due to isolation and loneliness, and has attempted to take their own life.

I work in an industry which halted almost overnight in March. I have no income and no government support.

My PILs are in their 90s. They are not sitting happily at home growing tomatoes and doing tapestry. FIL has dementia and MIL is struggling to look after him alone. She gets no respite, she can't have a cup of coffee with a neighbour.

There is no easy answer. But bickering between groups doesn't help.

Sorry I forgot to add student doctors and dentists to the immunisation training

@MonsterKidz

I don’t disagree with many of the points above. Absolutely agree with teachers being vaccinated asap.

But I thought the point of vaccinating the eldest and most vulnerable of severe illness first was that once we have good protection there not so many people require medical help and therefore the impact on the nhs is lesser and the rest of us can crack on until we all get vaccinated.

But many of us dont want to crack on until we are vaccinated because we dont want to get long covid. My office isn't looking like enforcing return until people have had the vaccine. So really we need working age people vaccinated (first school children rarely get any serious illness or long covid from my understanding). If an elderly person expects me to go to work to fund the NHS whilst they go to garden centres and coffee shops with a vaccine and i haven't had one then they have another thing coming (and i say this as a mid thirties person). Certainly if they can then go on holiday and countries start insisting on covid passports and i get mine late this year then that is grossly unfair.

@rosie1959 I haven’t complained to anyone I’ve emailed my MP with my concerns as I’m entitled to. Maybe I’ll get a really good response that will give me reassurance maybe not. Isn’t it our right to question how the government run things particularly under the current devastating circumstances?

If you can't cope with what is going on now you really wouldn't like to be left with a country without a safe and functioning NHS service

Forgive me for pointing out the obvious, but we're already without a safe and functioning NHS service - and that was before Covid, and continued throughout the summer when cases were on the floor

The issue is here people are looking at this backwards. They are thinking in terms of individual risk, and so thinking that those who are younger/working/teachers etc should be prioritised so that the younger can crack on with life. They are completely ignoring the collective risk factor: the big problem is that it is the older and vulnerable needing to use the hospitals and therefore vaccinating these groups as priority along with NHS and care home staff makes perfect practical and economic sense. I don't think for a moment the Tories are prioritising saving the lives of elderly people; they are looking at long term economics and what will end this pandemic first, and that will be the vaccinating of the groups that need the hospitals most and threaten to overload it.

If these groups remain unvaccinated then they will still need the hospitals and this thing will not calm down and be contained, and we will all be stuck in these measures for far longer.

Is that really what you want? Because even if your mum/aunt Mabel tells you she would sacrifice her vaccine for the young, that is what would happen if they actually went along with that kind of thinking.

Why is that so hard to see? So many intelligent posts here laying it out and still people coming on and saying it's not fair why are people who are sick and dying and should be locked away in some gulag somewhere and never allowed to access the NHS being prioritised over the Important Young and Healthy?

Why so hard to see the stark, plain truth in this?

I have no love for our government but they have followed the advice of a third party without bias, and they want the economy to recover. Ask yourselves what would actually happen if vaccinations were given backwards as you wish?

Crazy thinking.

I am extremely happy with the way things are going!

We are vaccinating millions now, compare that to France - 329 to date - and I think we are doing bloody great!

Yes it is shit and beyond shit to be dealing covid, but honestly I think on the vaccine front, securing as many as we did - regulators were all over it from the beginning - it has been a triumph. We are leading in the world in terms of producing and vaccinating. Some people are never happy. All this and dealing with a mutant strain of covid - seriously - just be glad that by the spring we will be in a much better place.

@Ponypizzy you said the first time you have emailed them ? Of all the things though that they have so far got right , is the one thing you have emailed them for.
One of the first to approve , given more vaccines so far than whole of europe, have had doses on order for months .
Are set to give quite a lot of vaccines in the next month, supply we can so little about other than wait.