To expect to be able to choose not to have the vaccine without being made to feel uncomfortable? *edited by MNHQ at OP's request*

[Drogonssmile]

Risking a flaming here:

I work in the NHS not patient facing. Our Trust has said all non frontline staff are likely to be offered the vaccine next week. (1000 staff have already been done which is brilliant!)

I'm a fit and healthy 39 year old with no underlying health conditions. I am not an anti vaxxer however I am concerned about the lack of long term research that has understandably not been able to be done on the vaccine and have made an informed decision that I probably won't have it. I'd prefer my dose to go to someone more vulnerable. I believe this should be my choice.
My colleague is 62 and is all for having the vaccine which is great. I said I probably wouldn't as it doesn't affect transmission only the severity of the illness. Now she isn't speaking to me.
AIBU?

(Also given the amount of setbacks and govt lies/omissions in the last 10 months I wouldn't be at all surprised if the vaccine isn't the silver bullet we've been told to expect. The way things are going I can see is in the same situation in 12 months time).

If the vaccine stops the person who has received the correct dose from transmitting it, then why do those who are vaccinated still need to wear masks, social distance, etc? I'm genuinely curious as to why.

As simply as I can, and without all the details. I'm no expert either, but do have a science/health background so some of the terminology is less opaque to me:

1. It takes time after vaccination for it to be effective
2. It is not 100% effective
3. There is, as with many other vaccines, the chance that a vaccinated person will still transmit the disease
4. The time the vaccine remains effective is not yet known
5. Additional viral load can be dangerous
6. Public confidence

completely support you OP. Some people here seem to forget you have freedom of choice, and if you are concerned about the vaccine (which many are), it is your right to refuse and for your decision to be respected

It may be her right to refuse but it is certainly not her right to have everyone else respect her decision. I do not respect it and expect many others to feel the same.

You cannot demand the right to do as you choose AND demand the right to force everyone else to be fine with it. It doesn't work like that.

I think you missed the point/s I was making @Notthemessiah

And those of many others!

@CuriousaboutSamphire

All of these are things we have direct control over, we know are bad for our health and yet we do anyway (similar to choosing not to be vaccinated). Oh god! Please let it stop!

One person with fat infects how many people with fat?

How many drinkers does it take to overwhelm the country's hospital beds?

How many deaths of smokers does it take to bring whole countries to a halt?

How many people need to take a vaccination beofre herd immunity takes effect?

CuriousaboutSamphire I think I love you.

You've voiced exactly what I was trying to articulate in my head. I'm a fat cow, yes. I have OA in my knees as a result. Does my fatness give other people OA? No, it doesn't.

Smokers are putting themselves at risk of lung cancer, heart disease etc but the risk to others, while I concede is there (eg asthma for family members etc) is less than the risk to the smoker.

Drinkers are at risk of damaging their livers, not other's livers though.

Anti vaxxers are putting their health at risk and the health at others at risk. That's what's so selfish.

HI OP
I don't think you are BU at all. It should be a choice and frankly it is none of your colleagues business.

I will be offered the vaccine and I'm not sure I will chose to be vaccinated basically because I want to see a lot more data. This is my choice and frankly anyone who thinks IABU would do well to remember my body, my choice.

Even if you get covid the likelihood is you will only get it mildly so all the PP saying you will be taking up resources don't necessarily know this is a given. I am so fed up with all the emotive bullying about Covid - just because someone has a different view or opinion to someone else doesn't mean they aren't allowed to hold this view. It's a slippery slop to the 'think police' otherwise.

What i find unfortunate is how polarised this has become as a discussion. I know several people who have told me they don't want to have this vaccine, but whose children have all the vaccines they should have and have had vaccines themselves. They aren't anti-vaxxers but have concerns and questions about this.

Throwing bricks at these people, calling them names and shouting them down will achieve nothing. All it does is make people retreat more into their bunkers.

If you want to change someone's mind, try not insulting them for a start. And then engage them on the questions and concerns they have.

Or don't. Just shout insults and don't be surprised when they won't have the sodding vaccine.

I seem to be on a bit of a streak at the moment @Spidey66

I appear to be typing more lucidly than usual

@CuriousaboutSamphire

I think you missed the point/s I was making *@Notthemessiah*

And those of many others!

And you must have missed mine, so let's call it even.

YANBU. NHS worker in my 40's, feel exactly as you do.

@Drogonssmile

Ps

I apologise if I am uneducated about vaccines. I never claimed to be an expert I only made a decision based on what I was aware of. There is no need to be sanctimonious.

That’s not what you said though is it? You said you’d “made an informed decision”.

If you were my colleague I’d be entirely tolerant of your choice not to take the vaccine, but if you were talking rubbish about why you’d made that decision then I’d walk away rather than get into a row.

@Hotcuppatea

What i find unfortunate is how polarised this has become as a discussion. I know several people who have told me they don't want to have this vaccine, but whose children have all the vaccines they should have and have had vaccines themselves. They aren't anti-vaxxers but have concerns and questions about this.

Throwing bricks at these people, calling them names and shouting them down will achieve nothing. All it does is make people retreat more into their bunkers.

If you want to change someone's mind, try not insulting them for a start. And then engage them on the questions and concerns they have.

Or don't. Just shout insults and don't be surprised when they won't have the sodding vaccine.

Thank you

@makingitupaswegoon

HI OP I don't think you are BU at all. It should be a choice and frankly it is none of your colleagues business.

I will be offered the vaccine and I'm not sure I will chose to be vaccinated basically because I want to see a lot more data. This is my choice and frankly anyone who thinks IABU would do well to remember my body, my choice.

Even if you get covid the likelihood is you will only get it mildly so all the PP saying you will be taking up resources don't necessarily know this is a given. I am so fed up with all the emotive bullying about Covid - just because someone has a different view or opinion to someone else doesn't mean they aren't allowed to hold this view. It's a slippery slop to the 'think police' otherwise.

Thank you I agree

It should be a choice and frankly it is none of your colleagues business

It absolutely IS her colleagues business, amazed so many can't see that!

I will be offered the vaccine and I'm not sure I will chose to be vaccinated basically because I want to see a lot more data

More data is got from people getting vaccinated, so what you are saying is that you want other people to get it to protect you AND to be a guinea pig for you so that you can wait and get it later.

Selfish in the extreme.

rather the consequences for making bad personal choices and then not being treated because of them. You were talking about this, I think.

Fat people, smokers, drinkers have been told they cannot have treatments for decades. The effects of that falls on them, their family and the care system - which is why it is always being looked at, revised etc.

Failure to take a vaccine, add yourself to herd immunity (bar any contraindications) affects the individual and everyone they come into contact with, their family and the care system AND THE NHS as you can't leave an infectious person to transmit their disease in the same way you can leave a person with fat to be fat!

Or if it was this This particular vaccine isn't proven to prevent you from passing on COVID to other people (I know they are looking into it) so at the moment it's purely about protecting yourself and not other people. Then you are relying on poorly explained science, low likelihoods etc, as has been discussed ad nauseum on this thread and many others. The vaccine is NOT about just protecting yourself; the issue about continued transmissability is a slight one, the same as with every other vaccine. It will be studied, becasue such things always are...

@Spidey66 before you have an orgasm over @CuriousaboutSamphire

I am not an anti vaxxer. Neither am I overweight, smoke or drink. Can you claim the same?

@Hotcuppatea

What i find unfortunate is how polarised this has become as a discussion. I know several people who have told me they don't want to have this vaccine, but whose children have all the vaccines they should have and have had vaccines themselves. They aren't anti-vaxxers but have concerns and questions about this.

Throwing bricks at these people, calling them names and shouting them down will achieve nothing. All it does is make people retreat more into their bunkers.

If you want to change someone's mind, try not insulting them for a start. And then engage them on the questions and concerns they have.

Or don't. Just shout insults and don't be surprised when they won't have the sodding vaccine.

I completely agree with you. Other people throwing their toys out about it is hardly going to encourage the poster to take the vaccine. Unfortunately Mumsnet is not a place for reasonable dialogue. Most people seem incapable of it.

Even if you get covid the likelihood is you will only get it mildly so all the PP saying you will be taking up resources don't necessarily know this is a given. I am so fed up with all the emotive bullying about Covid - just because someone has a different view or opinion to someone else doesn't mean they aren't allowed to hold this view. It's a slippery slop to the 'think police' otherwise.

But there's also a likelihood that you could get it worse than that. Women in the age range of 30-60 are actually the group most affected by long Covid. Okay, there's more of a likelihood that you won't, but the risk is there. Read the long Covid thread and that will be very clear to you. There are some who have said that they don't think they'll ever be able to work again

And a lot of Mumsnet posters are women in that age range. So please don't minimise this.

"I'm not an anti vaxxer, I'm just not going to get the vaccine that the whole world has been praying for for months that can end this horrific situation".

@U8myufo thank you. For all of your posts.

I feel like people that refuse are rarely the ones putting themselves at risk day in, day out. I’m frontline staff, working with older people and jumped at the chance to have it. I need more than a flimsy paper mask on my side!

I’m fed up of worrying every random symptom is Covid, the impact of people isolating on staffing and constant swabbing and isolating of mentally unwell patients.

You need to think about others as well as yourself before you refuse the vaccine IMO.

Your narkiness is part of the problem IceIceBebe.

Your narkiness is part of the problem IceIceBebe

Oh yeah? Do tell

Like a few other posters and yourself - it doesn't sit well with me that non-frontline staff are getting the vaccine before priority groups

Is my narkiness contributing to the continuation of a pandemic, the same way refusing vaccines is? Is my narkiness catching, can it kill?