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Things go wrong in other countries, too

552 replies

avenueq · 05/01/2021 09:58

I don't think it's helpful how irate people get about the UK government's failings. Yes there are plenty but this is a whole new situation and there are plenty of other countries making mistakes.
Before you ask - I'm not from the UK, but that means I have insight what happens elsewhere,
So to start -
The Eu has been slow in vaccine acquisition

In Austria, vaccinations could not start yet in some areas as not enogh needles (!) had been ordered

Countries with the most severe lockdown did not necessarily solve the Problem (Spain)

Countries who had supposedly excellent track and trace also had a second wave (Germany)

Anyone got other examples?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
Schehezarade · 05/01/2021 12:00

You've more people dead from Covid that civilians were lost in the UK in WW2
But the population is about 2/5 larger than then.
Do your sums. And those dying have poor health - hence lockdown to keep beds free.

Yohoheaveho · 05/01/2021 12:01

@ILoveAllRainbowsx

Also, are death rates are higher than other European countries as we have the unhealthiest people and diet in Europe.
^this!
IcedPurple · 05/01/2021 12:01

Evaluate by what measure? Deaths per million inhabitants?

Evaluate whatever claim the poster is making, such as the efficiency of the government's measures 'in my country'. It's easy to say how wonderful things are 'in my country' when they don't name the country and allow others to offer informed opinions on their claims.

Schehezarade · 05/01/2021 12:01

California was every bit as bad as here with lack of beds etc a few days ago - also new variant had appeared.

derxa · 05/01/2021 12:01

Good thread OP. I don't know why people are slagging off our country's response to Covid. It's completely non productive.

Flaxmeadow · 05/01/2021 12:02

It answers your post. Makes your post meaningless..?

No it does not. You seem to be saying that "all" the strategies government have tried are wrong. My point was, that all those strategies have been tried by other countries as well.

I also disagree that "all" of it was wrong

giantangryrooster · 05/01/2021 12:09

@ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia

The crux of the matter is despite your geographic location and political leadership - surely you must also also trust your own educated judgement as how to best mitigate the evolving invisible risks? Many in advance East Asian nations and seemingly as a society take more personal and by extension civic duty preventative actions seriously. They forever wore masks and social distanced while the rest of the world was still self entitled to ignore the face coverings and social distancing scientific evidence. See the difference in comparative Covid statistical correlations?

This. But those countries are sadly hard to compare with, in Europe atleast we feel our democratic/personal rights are being discarded if we are told to do things the Asian way.

But where I am from we have the rule dodgers, rule benders, the but but that doesn't apply to me, the oh it's only a little thing I cannot live without and it doesn't hit me I don't care types. All combined you cannot handle a pandemic that well without not so democratic laws, and we are simply not used to obeying government orders.

WhenPidgeonsCry · 05/01/2021 12:09

@IcedPurple

Evaluate by what measure? Deaths per million inhabitants?

Evaluate whatever claim the poster is making, such as the efficiency of the government's measures 'in my country'. It's easy to say how wonderful things are 'in my country' when they don't name the country and allow others to offer informed opinions on their claims.

Right.... and how would you actually evaluate a claim that "the government's measures are more efficient"?
Dongdingdong · 05/01/2021 12:11

And the obsession about being a laughing stock! So ridiculous and childish but may be they are children in here who knows.

Exactly. Because coronavirus is oh so hilarious Hmm

Hardbackwriter · 05/01/2021 12:12

Right.... and how would you actually evaluate a claim that "the government's measures are more efficient"?

Presumably using the same scientific method that you used to say that no other government had been as poor as the UK one?

WhenPidgeonsCry · 05/01/2021 12:12

@Flaxmeadow

It answers your post. Makes your post meaningless..?

No it does not. You seem to be saying that "all" the strategies government have tried are wrong. My point was, that all those strategies have been tried by other countries as well.

I also disagree that "all" of it was wrong

No, I never said every strategy the UK gov. has tried has been wrong. Where did you read that? I said that the UK gov. has made many many mistakes. And while lots of other governments have also made some mistakes, the UK has made just about every mistake possible.

I don't really see what anybody gains from trying to let governments off the hook by saying "all countries have had problems". Of course all countries have had problems. But some have objectively dealt with the whole thing better than others. Those who did badly should be held to account for it.

Dongdingdong · 05/01/2021 12:12

As I said on another thread, there are posters on MN who were very vehemently against closing our borders to prevent the spread. Then when Macron does it they’re in full support! You couldn’t make it up.

IcedPurple · 05/01/2021 12:12

Right.... and how would you actually evaluate a claim that "the government's measures are more efficient"?

The same way anyone here is evaluating the efficiency of said measures in Britain and elsewhere.

Which, of course, is impossible to do when the poster gets all coy about naming 'my country'. Why refer to your country in the first place if you're not going to say what it is?

WhenPidgeonsCry · 05/01/2021 12:13

@Hardbackwriter

Right.... and how would you actually evaluate a claim that "the government's measures are more efficient"?

Presumably using the same scientific method that you used to say that no other government had been as poor as the UK one?

I didn't say that.
ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia · 05/01/2021 12:14

The UK and USA cannot be compared for endless reasons as so different.

The US population are majority in very poor health. Obesity is common and “acceptable” as normality. UK and continental Europeans are rarely obese. Over weight yes but morbid obesity is rare but common in the US.

Covid discriminates on those with most potential exposure and those with worse underlying health conditions.

The US also does not have state tax payer funded free at point of use general whole life cycle healthcare. We in have the NHS and their amazing and genuinely caring work ethic. NHS professionals choose to help people as a career in very challenging circumstances they are not simply doing a job to pay bills especially as most are under rewarded. They do it as a passion. That is not to say other global health care professionals globally are not also of this mindset. However health care is an expensive business in the US and many struggle to pay high free market prices and so general health conditions of Americans are worse and then you have the convenience don’t walk anywhere ultra processed fast food culture with portion control issues on top. The US is fun for holidays but long term not great for health outcomes unless you are very smart tolerant and have great self control as to fitness and diet lifestyles. This all impacts the relative Covid outcomes irrespective of political leadership.

Shedbuilder · 05/01/2021 12:15

I've been Zooming regularly with family in New Zealand, which is held up as having handled everything perfectly. My cousins there think it's all very funny.

They point out that in Auckland and the other main cities there have been loads of people who didn't observe lockdown back in March and even in the more recent one last summer there were crowds on beaches and parties and everything we complain about over here. There was also panic buying and fights in supermarkets and there have been shortages.

They feel they were lucky that Covid never got a grip there, as it had in Switzerland and Italy and Austria with the ski season. They also point out that they are thousands of miles away from the nearest landmass, have relatively few international flights which were all quickly and easily stopped, and even their biggest cities tend to have a lowish population density.

I keep reading people saying that they want to go and live in New Zealand because it's a country where the government has looked after its population properly, but from all I'm told by my contacts the government's done relatively little except shut down the ports and airports (easily done) and impose lockdown restrictions. It's looked to us and other European countries, such as Germany, for its lead.

My Kiwi contacts are envious of us having the vaccination over here, because although they aren't currently in lockdown of any kind there and life is going on as normal, they're suffering financially for various reasons (including thousands of Kiwis who've been working abroad suddenly coming home and driving up the cost of housing). The tourist industry, which is a big earner, has gone and until everyone's vaccinated it's unlikely to take off again.

On another front I read the other day that in Wales they've been testing the Covid virus, looking for mutations, more times each week than France has since March. That was a bit shocking.

I'm not a Tory supporter but I'm not sure any of the other parties or leaders would have done much better. Germany seems to have done better than us but it's very difficult to know for sure because the statistics are all counting different things. In a few years' time, when excess deaths have been calculated properly, it may look different.

I hear of the chaos in the US from friends in Oregon, California, New York and North Carolina, I have Belgian and Dutch and Danish friends wailing about the awfulness of their own government response and on the whole I feel quite glad to be here in the UK, despite everything.

Spiratedaway · 05/01/2021 12:15

@Holyrivolli

You’re on a hiding to nothing here with that comment OP. People on MN are revelling in slagging off everything that is done in this country. Of course it’s not been all done correctly and Boris and co will have serious questions to answer afterwards but posters here simply won’t accept that anything is done right here. It’s like a competitive gloom competition.
So so true
Hardbackwriter · 05/01/2021 12:15

But I don't know any others who are as comically inept as the UK gov (maybe the US, but at least there state government can mitigate/ignore Trump's idiocy).

The difference is that while almost every country has made some of these mistakes, the Tories have made ALL of them. And continue to do so. They honestly seem to be trying to do the worst job possible.

I mean, you did say that? And those are hardly reasoned opinions supported with evidence and data, are they?

AcornAutumn · 05/01/2021 12:16

@PenguinIce

I was thinking exactly the same until recently. However I do believe the Government letting people mix at Christmas was wrong and we are now having to sacrifice education for it. I do think that is a failing by our Government.
Point of logic

If you think xmas mixing was a problem then the schools mixing would have caused the same problem.

WhenPidgeonsCry · 05/01/2021 12:17

@IcedPurple

Right.... and how would you actually evaluate a claim that "the government's measures are more efficient"?

The same way anyone here is evaluating the efficiency of said measures in Britain and elsewhere.

Which, of course, is impossible to do when the poster gets all coy about naming 'my country'. Why refer to your country in the first place if you're not going to say what it is?

Presumably people don't want to out themselves. I know I don't.

If we talk solely about how effective the response has been, then we can say that no matter where these posters are from, there's good reason to believe their country has handled things better than the UK, since by most objective measures (such as deaths per million inhabitants) most countries HAVE done better than the UK.

But a lot of people are just talking about perceptions, really, which is difficult to measure. For example, the leader of my country has never defended a high-level official/advisor travelling across the country after testing positive. Or the government of my country has never said "go back to school, then 2 days later, one day after school restarted after a 2-week break, closed schools. These are things that most people would say the UK government has done wrong, but whose effects aren't really measurable. And even then, do you really need to know which country I'm from just to confirm the above two examples haven't happened here??

Hardbackwriter · 05/01/2021 12:20

Presumably people don't want to out themselves. I know I don't.

Unless 'your country' is the Vatican City I don't think it's likely that you'll out yourself by saying you're from there. 'Oh my god, this person is Spanish! It absolutely must be Maria from work!'

Dongdingdong · 05/01/2021 12:21

On the whole I consider it a good thing he's not keen on having the army patrolling the streets and citizens being arrested left, right and centre for transgressions.

Ha...but the MN Covid crew would LOVE that! Grin

IcedPurple · 05/01/2021 12:23

Presumably people don't want to out themselves. I know I don't.

Do you live in Andorra or Vatican City or another country with a population so tiny that you would be 'outed' under a pseudonom?

But a lot of people are just talking about perceptions, really, which is difficult to measure. For example, the leader of my country has never defended a high-level official/advisor travelling across the country after testing positive. Or the government of my country has never said "go back to school, then 2 days later, one day after school restarted after a 2-week break, closed schools. These are things that most people would say the UK government has done wrong, but whose effects aren't really measurable. And even then, do you really need to know which country I'm from just to confirm the above two examples haven't happened here??

I need to know what country you're from in order to know if your points are valid, of course I do. There's no point in having a discussion with you if you refuse to supply us with the relevant information. Quite possibly your country has been completely crap in all sorts of ways, but since you refuse to tell us what that country is, how can we have an informed discussion? We can't.

luckylavender · 05/01/2021 12:23

For all those saying we're not a laughing stock, try looking at the foreign press. I have friends & family in Australia, US, South Africa, France, Spain, Portugal, Malta... sure all governments have made mistakes but most of them aren't as corrupt & morally bankrupt as ours.

IcedPurple · 05/01/2021 12:23

@Hardbackwriter

Presumably people don't want to out themselves. I know I don't.

Unless 'your country' is the Vatican City I don't think it's likely that you'll out yourself by saying you're from there. 'Oh my god, this person is Spanish! It absolutely must be Maria from work!'

Snap!
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