Things go wrong in other countries, too

[avenueq]

I don't think it's helpful how irate people get about the UK government's failings. Yes there are plenty but this is a whole new situation and there are plenty of other countries making mistakes.
Before you ask - I'm not from the UK, but that means I have insight what happens elsewhere,
So to start -
The Eu has been slow in vaccine acquisition

In Austria, vaccinations could not start yet in some areas as not enogh needles (!) had been ordered

Countries with the most severe lockdown did not necessarily solve the Problem (Spain)

Countries who had supposedly excellent track and trace also had a second wave (Germany)

Anyone got other examples?

I'm in Australia where we are seeing nowhere near the cases and deaths you guys are, and yet people here are angry at the governments too. Some blaming them for Melbourne's second wave and New South Wales' current outbreaks. Some comparing with UK and USA and getting angry at the severity of our lockdowns given how few cases we had.

Ultimately no government wants large numbers of their citizens to die or be traumatised and they don't want their economies destroyed. They are dealing with a situation unlike any other in our lifetimes and they're going to make mistakes. I don't think anywhere apart from perhaps New Zealand has handled it perfectly and they have a lot in their favour In terms of poulation size & density etc. The trouble is this virus is just so easily transmitted that any mistakes can be disastrous.

What planet are your family on? I'm in the US and the UK debacle is in the news every day

Given how notoriously insular American news is, that surprises me. I would have thought the American debacle would give their news networks more than enough material to be getting on with.

The Netherlands is struggling at the moment
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55549656
I'm grateful to live in the UK at the moment, I have a good chance of being vaccinated over the next few months, along with my vulnerable daughter.

www.indiatoday.in/coronavirus-outbreak/story/moderna-vaccine-doses-destroyed-by-us-pharmacist-fearing-dna-change-1756403-2021-01-06

Did this make your rolling coverage, shamalidackak?

@Thismustbelove

and "wow they are vaccinating people really fast, wish we could be more like that" ???? We are actually waiting to see how giving one vaccine works out to see if it’s viable or not. Other countries seem less intent on partial vaccinations but if it works in the UK then maybe we will follow suit if we don’t have any other options.

Even taking into account that we're increasing the gap between doses, we've still given many more individual shots than other European countries. In our first week following approval of Pfizer/BioNTech we administered 130,000 doses, whereas France did a little over 500 in their first week, and the Netherlands had to delay the start of the program until today because they messed up on the logistics. As we've had approval for longer we're now up to 1.3 million total shots, while the majority of EU countries are still in the tens of thousands or even fewer, with the exception of Germany and Italy.

I'm sure all countries will quickly improve their infrastructure and in the end there won't be much difference in the rate of vaccinations across northern Europe. My point is that if it were the other way round we'd see pages and pages of posts about how we're so slow, the government is useless, look at France and the Netherlands who are doing so much better etc etc etc. In fact we did have loads of posts about how we were too slow and it would take us years to get through everyone if we didn't speed it up. The vast majority of positive things I've heard about the UK vaccine rollout have been from people in other countries - because they are also bitching about their governments and comparing them negatively to ours!

Some posters seem to think that people in the rest of Europe either live in a utopia where nothing ever goes wrong, or are too busy being aghast at whatever we're doing to care about their own domestic problems. I find it completely bizarre. Citizens of other countries aren't a different species!

@IcedPurple coincidentally I read this yesterday - can't really comment as I don't reat the NYT but that post certainly reminded me of it!

My point is that if it were the other way round we'd see pages and pages of posts about how we're so slow, the government is useless, look at France and the Netherlands who are doing so much better etc etc etc. In fact we did have loads of posts about how we were too slow and it would take us years to get through everyone if we didn't speed it up.

Imagine if a vaccine developed in Britain were rolled out in Europe weeks before it had even been approved in Britain. MN would be exploding with 'laughing stock' threads. Yet that, in reverse, is basically what happened with the Pfizer vaccine.

Some posters seem to think that people in the rest of Europe either live in a utopia where nothing ever goes wrong, or are too busy being aghast at whatever we're doing to care about their own domestic problems. I find it completely bizarre. Citizens of other countries aren't a different species!

I do sometimes wonder if MN readers have actually spent any time in the countries they praise so much. They're really not so very different from Britain, and way more focussed on their own problems - which are many - than 'laughing' at Britain.

What planet are your family on? I'm in the US and the UK debacle is in the news every day

Any links?

I honestly think a huge amount of this is basically luck and that most of the restrictions in most countries have just been rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. I don't believe we humans are nearly as powerful as we sometimes think we are.

I do sometimes wonder if MN readers have actually spent any time in the countries they praise so much. They're really not so very different from Britain, and way more focussed on their own problems - which are many - than 'laughing' at Britain.

I am always amazed by the posts on MN about the one other European country that I have spent large amounts of time in, Italy (I have never lived there as my sole residence, but did research there so spent multiple long stints over years) - it is totally unrecognisable and I do think that most of it is based on literally one nice family holiday in a particularly pretty place that the MN-er took there and ever since has remembered with rose-tinted glasses that in Italy everyone is nice, all children behave, everyone only eats food freshly prepared by Nonna and that essentially they all live like they're on holiday permanently.

I am in another country (South Africa) and the only reason why I know what is going on in the UK is because I log in to MN quite frequently, and have some family there.

I don't even think that when you went into lockdown last week, it even made the headline news here.

We have our own shitshow here right now.

What did make headlines and the news though is that our Health Minister is quite upset that the UK health minister just decided that the new strain came from here, and had been referred to as the SA variant. As in other parts of the world, the new strain is being referred to as the new UK variant. So generally the thoughts are just that it is a blame game.

People are upset no matter what country we are in. I am quite sure that most other countries are too blaming governments inefficiency . Like they are here. But then again, no matter what decision government make, someone wont like it. We are right into the 2nd wave here too, and do have a lockdown, but not as extreme as March last year. Some say its not enough. Some say its ridiculous. Our beaches are closed, alcohol is banned, you can now get arrested for not wearing a mask and breaking curfew (which is 6am to 9pm). Some people are very vocal and complaining as government has fallen prey to a big conspiracy, others claim the covid funds have been stolen, but then, some say that this lockdown is not enough. But we won't survive another complete shutdown. We don't have the finances available that the European countries do to keep doing. Our people are dying of covid and starvation. What is government to do? No matter what Cyril Ramaphosa announces soon, there will be uproar either way.

It is incessant. So much so I don't even go onto my own facebook page anymore.

So, in answer to your initial post OP, yes things are going wrong elsewhere, but you just don't get to hear about it, just like we don't get to hear about your situation on a regular basis.

@Hardbackwriter

I do sometimes wonder if MN readers have actually spent any time in the countries they praise so much. They're really not so very different from Britain, and way more focussed on their own problems - which are many - than 'laughing' at Britain.

I am always amazed by the posts on MN about the one other European country that I have spent large amounts of time in, Italy (I have never lived there as my sole residence, but did research there so spent multiple long stints over years) - it is totally unrecognisable and I do think that most of it is based on literally one nice family holiday in a particularly pretty place that the MN-er took there and ever since has remembered with rose-tinted glasses that in Italy everyone is nice, all children behave, everyone only eats food freshly prepared by Nonna and that essentially they all live like they're on holiday permanently.

I lived in Italy for several years, speak the language well and agree that it's completely different from the stereotypes, especially in the North. I love Italy but life there isn't one long Dolmio ad!

I feel the same OP that while there have been HUGE mistakes, this was a new and unknown issue in March.
The government could have locked down a week earler and about 97% of MN would have closed borders in January or February...but really...who was in receipt of all the info that needed to be taken into consideration...? A lot of this is stuff that has been found afterwards.

I think Boris Johnson (and the gov) have been slow to act over the christmas mixing message and ridiculous with the schools closing this week.
But I really hate the constant comparison to other countries (both in criticism of the uk and in the brags from BJ)
-I don't care if we have a "world beating" T and T (narrator: it wasn't) we just need a functioning one. Its not a competition
-I don't care if "we were first because we're the best" at approving a vaccine. Its great that we have it and its one thing the government has done reasonably timely but we don't have to make it a competition (again)
-But I also don't see that we are a laughing stock.Like PP have said I imagine most countries are mainly worried about the situation in their own countries. And its not the world cup where we've fielded an over 50s pub team, theres nothing remotely funny about any country struggling with a pandemic.
-In the beginning we saw a lot of news from China, Spain and Italy, later USA....but if you asked me what for instance, Poland's situation was, I wouldn't have the faintest idea.

In the beginning we saw a lot of news from China, Spain and Italy, later USA....but if you asked me what for instance, Poland's situation was, I wouldn't have the faintest idea

Zambia, for eg, population of 3 million people, where only 1 million of the population have formal housing. They have had severe rains recently. Which is great for crops etc. But not for those using pit toilets, as now theses have overflowed and flooded into the streets. So now cholera will be on the increase. And because the whole world had to have sufficient supplies and beds available for covid patients, now there is a lack of medication available for malaria too. And malaria kills more people there each week than covid.

I know I should not compare a 3rd world country to a 1st world country, but just an example of the news that gets to you and the news that doesn't.

I was listening to the CBS news podcast other night, I think it was Norah O'Donnell or her sub was pressing health secretary to ask why US isn't rolling out vaccines in the UK model (single jab to many asap), that seemed like would protect many more people much faster.

I would say (I listen to a lot of US news) that the Uk model is not being slagged off at all, in fact, they mention very little about rest of the world. It's hard to be worse than the haphazard US roll out though.

@OllyBJolly

What's the point?

The UK government has not only failed in their reaction; communication has been abysmal. Totally inept. We're a laughing stock.

Really is. Perfect fodder for parody.

@shamalidacdak maybe that is to avoid having to look at the US debacle

The biggest issue with the UK is that we found the strain and are seeing the effects now it has almost been blamed on us.

But it is just as likely it came from the US (see the point about the US pointing fingers at the UK) and is going to hit everyone

What did make headlines and the news though is that our Health Minister is quite upset that the UK health minister just decided that the new strain came from here, and had been referred to as the SA variant. As in other parts of the world, the new strain is being referred to as the new UK variant. So generally the thoughts are just that it is a blame game.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong but the UK and SA variants are different in that the mutations are on different parts of the protein spike. I haven't heard any of our government ministers referring to the variant causing so many problems for us as the SA variant. In the UK press I have seen the strain spreading here as the Kent (a UK county) variant. If there is a blame game going on then it's a complete waste of energy, viruses mutate and transmit, it's a problem for all of us regardless of where new strains are first detected.

Look beyond Europe. The strategy of some SE Asian countries more successful. novaramedia.com/2021/01/05/when-will-britains-politicians-have-the-guts-to-take-lessons-from-asia/

isthismylifenow

As a PP poster said the UK variant isnt the same as the one found in South Africa.

I think the problem is blame is attached the those countries who genome testing of the virus spots these and allocates it out to those being the ones in which it mutated.

The US could be the UK one starting point because of their current rate of spread. We are clearly the point of it starting in Europe (and you can see it gaining traction there).

Africa is seeing higher rates spreading out from SA and the variant that started there.

Asia is also I think concerned about the more infectious variants around at the moment.

But you know what its not that things go wrong in any country it that we seem to think that we can control and beat a virus like it is another human or an army.

It isnt it is a virus doing what they like to do and like to do for years. Following other pandemics means that the summer is likely to be looking better anyway (2 years is around the time for a continual outbreak) with smaller clusters appearing.

@Cam2020

The UK government has not only failed in their reaction; communication has been abysmal. Totally inept. We're a laughing stock

That's funny because I know people in Spain who think our communication has been a dream compared to there!

It's just the usual anti UK sentiment (from within the UK).

No, it really is the laughing stock of the world.

I think the main answer to east Asia’s success is in the article though. They had experienced it before and knew what to do. We in Europe / the west didn’t because we hadn’t.
We’ll be better prepared next time I have no doubt.
Novaro are pretty lefty too, they wanted to refund the police in the summer! So not sure how the U.K. could become a surveillance state with no police ( even if we wanted to, which we don’t)

Defund the police not refund them

A couple pf days ago the French Health minister was on tv trying to explain why France had only vaccinated 2,000 prople when the UK had done 1.5 million....

You must know some pretty nasty people if that's what they are communicating to you during a pandemic.