Things go wrong in other countries, too

[avenueq]

I don't think it's helpful how irate people get about the UK government's failings. Yes there are plenty but this is a whole new situation and there are plenty of other countries making mistakes.
Before you ask - I'm not from the UK, but that means I have insight what happens elsewhere,
So to start -
The Eu has been slow in vaccine acquisition

In Austria, vaccinations could not start yet in some areas as not enogh needles (!) had been ordered

Countries with the most severe lockdown did not necessarily solve the Problem (Spain)

Countries who had supposedly excellent track and trace also had a second wave (Germany)

Anyone got other examples?

I remember during the first lockdown someone on mumsnet said that our high death rate made us the laughing stock. No one I know in other countries has that sort of personality and anyone who does is not exactly heaping glory on their own nationality.

Well quite. Jeez, who thinks high death rates are funny? Was anyone in the UK laughing at Italians when they first got hit hard in the spring? I bloody doubt it.

Highest covid death rate that should say. From here www.lemonde.fr/les-decodeurs/article/2020/05/05/coronavirus-age-mortalite-departements-pays-suivez-l-evolution-de-l-epidemie-en-cartes-et-graphiques_6038751_4355770.html

Of course other countries have cocked up too but they also don't make ridiculous statements such as "we will have a world beating track and trace system" that turns out to be no such thing . Other countries tend to be far more tempered in their pronouncements and they don't make something as serious as vaccine acquisition in to a willy waving competition.

Interestingly, in Iceland, we are all slapping ourselves on the back that we are world leaders in the genomic sequencing of the virus. We probably are per capita anyway! (Iceland is top in a lot of things if you use 'per capita' haha).

PuffinShop

Absolutely, what happened in both Italy and Spain was anything but funny, I didn't scrutinise their government's actions because the horror was happening to ordinary people just like me. Likewise, what's happening in the USA.

If you're keeping company with people who find it funny then you need better friends. If you revel in other nations being critical of our government when it's ordinary people being affected by the virus then you need to be a better person.

It’s getting ridiculous now. You have absolutely no idea what the politicians in every country in the world have been saying. Statements like all other countries are more tempered and less bravado is utter crap and shows a very limited understanding that politicians play to their domestic audience. Of course Boris and co have fucked certain things up. It’s the self-loathing and claims that everyone else has done it so much better that anyone with half a brain can see is crap.

Other countries [...] don't make something as serious as vaccine acquisition in to a willy waving competition.

If you want to hear an example from abroad... In Iceland there is a scientist named Kári Stefánsson who is the CEO of a private medical research company called deCODE Genetics, who are doing a lot of the research and testing here in Iceland. Kári was the in the media crowing about having suggested to Pfizer that they give us enough vaccines for everyone in the country (under 350,000) and make us into a whole-population study on the effectiveness of the vaccine etc. Our Chief Epidemiologist Þórólfur Guðnason who is officially in charge of the response accused him of stealing his idea and said he'd already suggested it himself. They were like a pair of 8 year olds arguing about whose idea it was first. And it hasn't even worked yet anyway - we're getting way fewer doses than they had expected and Pfizer has yet to get back to them on the vaccine study idea.

So, yeah...

I wonder looking at the EU progress especially around the vaccine. Has us leaving the EU helped us. It certainly feels like it.

France looks like it is struggling with rolling out the vaccine.

I wouldn’t bother giving examples Puffin as some of the posters on here simply won’t believe that any other country can possibly have done worse than here. This is an excellent example of British Exceptionalism - people believing that we’re the best at having the worst covid response in every way.

If you want to hear an example from abroad... In Iceland there is a scientist named Kári Stefánsson who is the CEO of a private medical research company called deCODE Genetics, who are doing a lot of the research and testing here in Iceland. Kári was the in the media crowing about having suggested to Pfizer that they give us enough vaccines for everyone in the country (under 350,000) and make us into a whole-population study on the effectiveness of the vaccine etc. Our Chief Epidemiologist Þórólfur Guðnason who is officially in charge of the response accused him of stealing his idea and said he'd already suggested it himself. They were like a pair of 8 year olds arguing about whose idea it was first. And it hasn't even worked yet anyway - we're getting way fewer doses than they had expected and Pfizer has yet to get back to them on the vaccine study idea.

So, yeah...

Puffin shop
I wasn't referring to disputes within individual countries. I'm sure plenty of those happened. I was referring to Gavin Williamson (UK education secretary no less) who said in relation to the vaccine rollout that the UK was a "much better" country than the US, Belgium and France because the UK has better scientists than all of them

www.theguardian.com/society/2020/dec/03/gavin-williamson-britains-a-much-better-country-than-all-of-them

You do wonder what they are like in real life - these doom mongers, let’s scare everyone. I think a lot of it is political.

@Bathroom12345

I wonder looking at the EU progress especially around the vaccine. Has us leaving the EU helped us. It certainly feels like it.

France looks like it is struggling with rolling out the vaccine.

We certainly benefited from brexif on this regard otherwise being a member of EU we would have been in the same position as the other 26 members

Of course speed of approving vaccines was definitely not something anyone was thinking of when they voted to Remain/Leave.

jasjas1973
Look at the figures?
Highest excess death rate in europe

Have you taken into account the new figures for Italy?

30 December;

ROME (Reuters) - Italy’s coronavirus death toll is probably considerably higher than reported, statistics bureau ISTAT said on Wednesday in an analysis pointing to thousands of fatalities that have not been officially attributed to COVID-19.

In its second report on the epidemic’s impact on Italy’s mortality rate, ISTAT said that from February to the end of November there were almost 84,000 more deaths compared with the average of the previous five years.

uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-italy-casualties/study-suggests-italys-covid-19-death-toll-is-higher-than-reported-idUKKBN2941W8

@bathroom12345 no what they were thinking of is being able to govern ourselves and make our own decisions, not have 26 other countries involved in making decisions which may or may not suit us. This is perfect example, France veto vaccine choice to preserve their own French version to detriment of 25 other members and its left them all lagging behind. How incredibly selfish of one country to be able to do that. Thank god we left otherwise we wouldn't be ahead on the vaccine rollout.

I am a remained and despair at the stupidity of brexit but it’ll be interesting to see how the vaccination situation plays out in Europe over the next 12 months and whether their approach of certain countries (looking at you France) putting national interests before collective need will have implications on continuing infection rates across the continent.

@avenueq

I don't think it's helpful how irate people get about the UK government's failings. Yes there are plenty but this is a whole new situation and there are plenty of other countries making mistakes. Before you ask - I'm not from the UK, but that means I have insight what happens elsewhere, So to start - The Eu has been slow in vaccine acquisition

In Austria, vaccinations could not start yet in some areas as not enogh needles (!) had been ordered

Countries with the most severe lockdown did not necessarily solve the Problem (Spain)

Countries who had supposedly excellent track and trace also had a second wave (Germany)

Anyone got other examples?

My daughter lives in the USA. A sensible, intelligent, well-informed 30 yr-old. She despairs at the way the pandemic has been handled. Any breach of what few restrictions that do exist do not seem to be punished by law. The Republican states in particular are more interested in protecting the economy than peoples' health. Many people don't seem to care because their outgoing President has set such an appalling example, so they think what's good enough for him is good enough for them. Her main hope is that the situation will start to improve when they have a new President - a Democrat. Fingers crossed........

@truthlemon

Didn't someone mistakenly inject 5x the vaccine into patients in Germany?

Yeah I heard that, and was it Belgium and I think Sweden who couldn’t start vaccinations because they couldn’t store the Pfizer vaccine at the correct temperatures! Can’t remember which country but think was one of them. The main thing that Boris Johnson has really messed up this time is the bit where he went on the news saying schools are safe when they obviously weren’t and then locked us down the same night. That is really poor leadership As for the mistakes made during the first lockdown, I think people will forgive them as the virus was so new and so little was known at the time about how the virus would behave. It’s not like any other party or member would’ve done a better job. I can’t think of anyone who would’ve had the magic answer.

Do other countries governments invest in nightingale they know they cant staff just to boost their ego? Do they hand out lucrative government contracts to their.largely unqualified mates? If you think people should not be complaining about that, then I despair for you. That's not making mistakes. That's corruption and johnson continues to say whatever he.thinks will make.people happy whether its true or not. The man is an absolute bastard and is absolutely not fit.to run this country or a piss up in a brewery

We voted here so hold our politicians more accountable.
I was sympathetic towards the government in the beginning but then their populist side appeared and they own played problems and made statements like uk preparations were "exemplary" which pissed me off. If the message was more humble and honest then I would have been more supportive of the fact that this is unprecedented.

@Bathroom12345

You do wonder what they are like in real life - these doom mongers, let’s scare everyone. I think a lot of it is political.

Yes, it is just political.

I didn't vote Tory, but actually think they have done well in the one measure that will make a difference - vaccines.

I wish they'd gone along with SAGE in March and gone along with Sweden in encouraging more immunity, but Cummings wanted lockdown. As it stands, we're going to end up with the same result, just a year later.

Most countries in Europe are going to have similar numbers of deaths per million.

@herethereandeverywhere yes i worked with people from europe when brexit Happened and after and they were not that bothered , they don't take that much notice.
Some thought we shouldn't do it others thought we should aa people in europe don't all think the same

@apollo3 have you looked at the figures all over europe? This virus has devastated lots of countries in europe

@herethereandeverywhere have you seen italy's rates and spains and even france's they are not far behind