Nurseries staying open

[meow1989]

To coin a mn phrase: is Boris on glue?!

So now I will have to pay to keep my toddler off to keep him (and us) safe?!

I don't think my childminder is happy about staying open, but I'm over the moon (and of course incredibly grateful).

I spent the last lockdown either screaming at my poor toddler or crying into my laptop, I'm relieved we don't have to go through that again.

@CrispySock

I’m genuinely surprised to read that parents with toddlers were expected to work by their employers in the last lockdown.

Yes. I couldn’t be furloughed (public sector) but wasn’t elected as a key worker. I asked for unpaid leave and was refused. I nearly broke down. My DH works away too. Was told I could work flexibly and to get a playpen.

If you work and use a private nursery, you have three options.

1. Send in your child and pay
2. Don't send in your child but still pay and risk the wrath of your employer who's not happy that you're having to work flexibly, weird hours, or your productivity is shot to shit
3. Don't send them in and don't pay. Again, run the risk of losing your job and screw the nursery.

Out of respect for the nursery workers I keep my world incredibly small. WFH, walk the dog, click & collect shop once a week. It's not that parents don't care, it's just it's the lesser of three evils.

@edwinbear

Even primary school children can be on their school online lessons, in the same room as a WFH parent for 30 mins or so, enabling a parent half a chance of getting a bit of work done. There is zero chance of that happening with a toddler.

Possibly... if there were any online lessons and dependent on the nature of the job. I don't know of any primary school children getting online lessons though. They send home worksheets where parents are required to teach the contents.

Hard as it would be for me I think they should be closed in the interest of everyone involved. I feel for the staff and I worry about the spread. Personally I think this decision is about money. If I choose not to send my child I still have to pay, if they are shut I wouldn't and they would need govt help to pay wages (furlough etc).

@sundowners

It doesn't make any sense whatsoever. No-one can argue that nurseries are more crucial to a childs development than early years in Primary. Primary = still very young kids running riot at home, needing to be entertained but also homeschooled- so stuff any attempt to try and carry on WFH for working parents. But working parents of 2/3 year olds will be ok? How is this fair or make any sense whatsoever.

The difference is as many are saying is the funding. Schools tend to be funded whilst nurseries are private many of them , they can’t charge a fee to the parents hence many would close n furlough the staff... and close. Also the nurseries transmission is lower than In primary

It's impossible to wfh with a toddler around and I'd imagine they are lower risk for spreading it as groups are smaller. I hope they remain open.

Wish they were open like that in Scotland for everyone, not just 2 keyworkers. More info later in the week re childcare, fingers crossed.

My 4y will definitely attend if allowed.

@sundowners

It doesn't make any sense whatsoever. No-one can argue that nurseries are more crucial to a childs development than early years in Primary. Primary = still very young kids running riot at home, needing to be entertained but also homeschooled- so stuff any attempt to try and carry on WFH for working parents. But working parents of 2/3 year olds will be ok? How is this fair or make any sense whatsoever.

2 working parents here, managed to work from home fine with the 5 and 7 yo. Not running riot or causing trouble, able to sit at table for reasonable time, independent etc.

2 yo cannot be left alone at all and in previous lockdown could only get work done at silly times eg when everyone asleep. Thank goodness she can go to childminder this time. Difficult for people who haven’t been in this situation (when all three home and homeschooling and working) to understand how terrible this is for children and families.

@bugwife9

It's impossible to wfh with a toddler around and I'd imagine they are lower risk for spreading it as groups are smaller. I hope they remain open.

My nursery has 45 pre-school children in their room.

If you work and use a private nursery, you have three options.

1. Send in your child and pay
2. Don't send in your child but still pay and risk the wrath of your employer who's not happy that you're having to work flexibly, weird hours, or your productivity is shot to shit
3. Don't send them in and don't pay. Again, run the risk of losing your job and screw the nursery.

Out of respect for the nursery workers I keep my world incredibly small. WFH, walk the dog, click & collect shop once a week. It's not that parents don't care, it's just it's the lesser of three evils.

We should also remember that working parents whose children cannot attend nursery will either have to (i) stop working/cut their hours; or (ii) source alternative childcare. So they may need the nursery money because their income has reduced or they're having to pay for a second lot of childcare. Had DS's nursery shut (as tbh, I expected it to), the two options which we were considering were (1) me taking unpaid leave, and (2) hiring a temporary nanny.

wasn't their a spike in baby deaths during the last lockdown? I don't think BJ cares about that but I'm glad some of that might be avoided this time.

Also, money.

When I collected DS today the staff were worried about having to shut again, last time nearly saw them close for good! The manager has a 4 month old that attends and she was saying she'll be opening no matter what! So I'm not worried for the staff as they are young, healthily and as far as I know happy to have their job security!

We wear masks in the building when dropping off/collecting, have very small bubbles and they have so much in place that there's not a chance I would consider their role unsafe compared to anyone else going out to work!

It's also stopped me having to use grandparents as childcare.

#I am an Early Years practitioner and am so upset by this. We cope with snot, sneazing, sick, blood and not a thought for us. I am a single parent and have to send my child to school so I can carry on working. Its disgusting#

This.
We don't have a union, a lot are on year to year contracts, we're not seen as important.
In my nursery only 1 member of staff is under 30, the majority are mums trying desperately to figure out how we're going to manage tomorrow because key worker places haven't even been allocated to our own kids yet but thanks for the understanding, as long as you're alright eh.

@InsideNumberNine

If you work and use a private nursery, you have three options.

1. Send in your child and pay
2. Don't send in your child but still pay and risk the wrath of your employer who's not happy that you're having to work flexibly, weird hours, or your productivity is shot to shit
3. Don't send them in and don't pay. Again, run the risk of losing your job and screw the nursery.

Out of respect for the nursery workers I keep my world incredibly small. WFH, walk the dog, click & collect shop once a week. It's not that parents don't care, it's just it's the lesser of three evils.

Absolutely this. The only person I see/talk to in the flesh is DS' key worker when I drop him off at the morning. We minimise all other contact including grandparents etc. I am so grateful to the staff for everything they've done as are all the other parents; there's not much we can do to show it other than try and be as sensible as possible (although we all chipped in to buy them as much lovely stuff as we could for Christmas!)

Had our nursery closed, I would have probably ended up losing my job, or dh his. I have a 1yr old and an almost 3yr old. They can't be left for a minute, it's just not safe. With the loss of one income we would be in serious financial trouble. Like losing our home level serious. So it is absolutely in my kids best interests that their nursery stay open. I feel for the staff, they are in an impossible position, as am I. There is no good option unfortunately.

sundowners I have a reception aged child and a 1 year old. They are very different beasts. It’s not ideal for the 4yo to be at home while working but she’d be happy to watch tv for hours, do some colouring and not be a danger to herself. She can get herself drinks and a snack, she can play independently. The 1 year old, not a chance. If I had to pick one setting to open, it would absolutely be nurseries.

I am over the moon. I work in mental health as well as studying. I am a single parent to a 2.5 year old. It just wouldn’t be practical for me to take my toddler to work and I’d have to lose sleep to get my study done. To me it’s a life saver on so many levels. I am grateful

Our nurseries are open, but almost closed because almost all staff are having to self isolate. Parents also don't have to pay to keep their places at ours from next week.

@BeetleRadio

wasn't their a spike in baby deaths during the last lockdown? I don't think BJ cares about that but I'm glad some of that might be avoided this time.

Also, money.

When I collected DS today the staff were worried about having to shut again, last time nearly saw them close for good! The manager has a 4 month old that attends and she was saying she'll be opening no matter what! So I'm not worried for the staff as they are young, healthily and as far as I know happy to have their job security!

We wear masks in the building when dropping off/collecting, have very small bubbles and they have so much in place that there's not a chance I would consider their role unsafe compared to anyone else going out to work!

It's also stopped me having to use grandparents as childcare.

The spike was due to mums not going to labour wards / contacting midwives and parents not going to A&E when they should have. Nothing to do with Covid. Transmission is still close to negligable in healthy under 4s.

[quote KiwiKit]@alex1889 every school year is fucking crucial in my opinion. Toddlers learn through play. They go to school to play and socialise. Yes, it’s important but not attending nursery is not going to fuck them up and leave massive gaps in their learning is it?! Unlike my DS with significant SEN whose hair is falling out and who has retreated in to himself so badly I don’t know how he’s ever going to recover. To say your toddler has ‘suffered’ because they haven’t gone to birthday parties or had a holiday is ridiculous and SO insensitive to those who have actually had their lives and families ripped to pieces by Covid.[/quote]

My husband has lost a significant amount of money this year due to Covid as he's self employed. Don't presume we have got off lightly during this pandemic.

It's a fact that early years are crucial for development and the adult you turn out to become. By age 5, you've pretty much lost most of the positive influence. There's some research on the Royal Foundation website (Duchess of Cambridge) if you want a starting point to do some reading.

I hope your DS continues to get the support he needs during this lockdown.

Well my eyes have been opened. That’s utterly shit! I’m glad nurseries are staying open this time !

@GrumpyHoonMain I was referring more to the babies harmed/killed but I wasn't very clear!

www.bbc.com/news/education-54827702

I work in a nursery.
And to be honest I cant believe boris johnson has said we have to run as normal.
As much as I love my job, it is impossible to keep myself safe on a daily basis, if your 2 year old fell over and was crying- would you be happy if I stayed 2 metres away? And told them to suck it up? .if they soiled a nappy-would you be happy for me to leave them in it all day? Not including sneezing.coughing.licking.accidents.sick.blood.spitting.biting etc.it is not possible to do my job correctly and keep me and the children safe from the spread of coronavirus.
It is also impossible ( although most of you will not want to believe it) to keep your children separate from others.different children will attend on different days to most nurseries, as will staff.therefore bubbles are of no use.think of everything your child touches daily. Now imagine us washing it after every use, before another child touches it.whilst keeping them 2meters away from any other child(up to 29 other children), and ourselves.all whilst delivering the daily doses of eyfs standards, and standard care.
I am keeping my own children away from school for safety, yet I am having to go to work where I am not safe, putting my own family at risk.
Most of all I find it absolutely mind boggling why all parents arent taking every precaution possible to protect their children and families.-why would you send your kids out in the midst of a pandemic? If you didnt have to?
Nurseries should be restricted too, they are as dangerous or more so than schools.they should open to only keyworker children.

Sad not to see more solidarity among parents. I don't think any parents of nursery age kids would deny this is awful for parents who have to home school young children or help their exam age children face what lies ahead.

If nurseries are being kept open, no one should judge parents for making use of them, especially if they have to work. Working with a toddler at home is just not possible. We all just have to do our best to keep ourselves and others safe and to get through this with our jobs and sanity!

@EasterIssland you mention that there’s evidence that it’s not spreading as much in nurseries as in primary schools. Is there anything you can share on this?

Genuine question, not being goady. I’ve just struggled to find any useful data or resources. The ONS data shows growth in % of positive cases of 2-12 year olds. But I can’t find anything that breaks this down further or talks about settings etc.

I have a 4yo in reception who will now be at home. Have almost 2yo who usually does a couple of days a week at private nursery. Have decided that I won’t send him in for now.

My rationale for this decision is that the infection rate is incredibly high where we are and dominated by new strain which is more contagious and can be transmitted more easily by children, often asymptotically. Frankly I don’t want to risk him getting it and bringing it home to us when as a family we otherwise won’t be interacting with anyone else. Hospitals near us are at their limits. There is no reason to think that DH or I would require hospital treatment if we got it but also no guarantee we wouldn’t. Couldn’t think of a worse time to catch it than now. I also don’t want to risk him taking it in if he/we have it asymptotically and spreading to others.

I just don’t feel the government has given an adequate explanation of why early years is fine to be open in this new level of transmission, whilst primary isn’t. There may be a good reason for the decision but I haven’t seen it. And frankly my confidence in the government’s decision making is at an all-time low.

So therefore I do completely get why workers in these settings are concerned and why the Early Years Alliance has spoken out against the decision.

However I completely understand the feeling of relief from working parents that they are open. And I know I’m taking my decision from an enormous position of privilege - I’m not working at present so can be there for both children and we can afford to pay to keep our nursery slot open.

But I still don’t think they’ve explained why it’s safe for nurseries to remain open, particularly re staff health and impact on transmission.

Would love to see any data etc others have seen in this point.