Nurseries staying open

[meow1989]

To coin a mn phrase: is Boris on glue?!

So now I will have to pay to keep my toddler off to keep him (and us) safe?!

@MondeoFan I am in exactly the same position as you, today my 16 year old will do a full day of live lessons on her laptop while supervising/ feeding etc her younger sibling while I go to work at my nursery.

Our nursery is a tiny village one and had two bubbles close towards the end of last term. There are only 6 to a maximum of 10 children per different class bubble. We are East Sussex. There are hand washing stations outside before going in. Parents never enter the building only drop at gates. Children are hand washing all day and still there is transmission. So no unless essential as in you are working and physically can not provide care. Then no I do not agree it’s ok to send them in and put staff at risk unnecessarily.

With a one and three year old and a husband doing everything to help make up for lost income after the live music industry stopped back in March. I would absolutely love to be able to send my son in for a little sanity I am exhausted . But currently with the hospitals in such a dire state and critical workers who desperately need this service i feel it would be very selfish of me.

I'm frontline NHS and I'm shocked that anyone would think it's ok to put nursery workers lives at risk but not primary or secondary school teachers. I understand it's damn hard for people with young kids. Nursery workers and SEN schools are probably the only people in this country that work in close contact with absolutely no protection. Unfortunately all the handwashing and cleaning in the world won't protect them when your child sneezes in their face or even just wants a cuddle. Keep your children at home with you and allow both nurseries and schools to have the minimum kids in from key workers. We have a lot of frontline staff with young children who will be going to nursery and we want to keep contacts to a minimum. If everyone send their children in to nursery that increases the risk to the staff (who most of you don't seem to care about) but also to the nurses or doctors who may be saving yours or a relatives life in the next few weeks. Stop being so selfish and actually give a thought for the nursery workers who are putting their lives at risk to look after YOUR children for you. If the disregard you have on here for nursery workers extends to the way you actually treat them then shame on you.

@Nettii1971 do you think it's that black and white? For some it's the difference of being able to keep their job and to have to quit because it's bloody hard to balance both. Unfortunately not everyone can revolve their life around covid, it doesn't make people selfish, it just highlights how shit this government is in providing support for people. There are a lot of jobs that keep the country ticking over, and roofs over people's heads.

It's not "damn hard" to work from home with young children, it's child neglect.

If our nursery had shut, I was already talking to my employer about unpaid leave. I can't pay nursery fees on top of that.

Nurseries are closed in Scotland, only open for key workers children.

All those who think parents should keep their children at home, do you want them to keep paying nursery fees? Even though they may have to quit their jobs or cut their hours? Or are you proposing that nurseries refund them the unused time like most had to do last year?

All those who think parents should keep their children at home, do you want them to keep paying nursery fees? our nursery tried to charge last March a percentage when closed, such a fuss people kicked up that they then said they wouldn’t charge and suddenly they couldn’t open to key workers- no solution is perfect!

Parents are not cash cows and most don't have bottomless pits of money, as some people seem to assume on here. Many have already exhausted their employers' tolerance and the only way now is out the door.

I can see both sides of this but isn’t it sad there are sides? Like the ongoing threads about schools, surely it would be better if we could come together and pressure the government for clarity? If it’s not safe for nurseries to open re risk to staff and transmission then they should shut for the good of everyone. But this then requires money and support. Furlough for nursery staff and working parents. Financial support for nurseries so they can keep going and reopen. Suspension of fees and financial support for parents so they can source other 1:1 childcare in their homes if they cannot be furloughed from their work. Entirely in the government’s gift but they won’t put the money where it’s needed.

And since my last post not one person has mentioned the nursery workers...just their selfish selves. I REST MY CASE.

Nursery workers need a union. Like the teachers and headteachers have with widespread membership. Otherwise like we see today government can keep them open despite safety concerns. A non unionised workplaces cannot expect the same level of care from government as a unionised workplace.

Omg yes I’m very very grateful to:

The nursery staff
The school staff still going in
The supermarket workers
The police
The gp surgery
The nhs as a whole

I’m so sorry for everyone who’s
Lost a loved one
Lost their income
Lost their home

....everyone is entitled to their stance and feelings based on their reality can we stop bashing people for that!

SAGE's Calum Semple has just spoken about this on BBC Breakfast. He seemed very shocked and angry that childcare is not closing to everyone bar KW and Vulnerable.

I agree with him.

@Nettii1971 must be nice to be so smug and self righteous. Just goes to show that being frontline nhs doesn’t make you less of an empathy free zone.

We will be sending DS. I don’t understand how as a society we have got to a point where we are intolerant of risk. If you are under 50 and healthy you have more chance of being hit and killed by a car on the way to nursery than you do of contracting & dying of covid in one. (I have great sympathy for those older or ECV, and I think government should be supporting those who need to shield.) I’m afraid all this general wringing of hands is a bit OTT, and fortunately our nursery staff agree and are relieved to be opening.

(And I am also a key nhs worker so am not holed up at home preaching at others.)

@30not13 SAGE have also said that they doubt the R can go under 1 even IF all the schools and nurseries close. So what then? We stay like this for ever? Until the end of 2021 when everyone is vaccinated? SAGE should be providing scientific advice, not on radio pontificating about social outcomes

TV and it was entirely about the science if you'd like to go and view it, then comment.

Nursery workers need to start handing in their section 44 notices. The lack of organisation amongst the people who work in this sector on this is shocking. Seriously teachers and headteachers were able to organise getting schools shut using legal action and mass action. Unfortunately the same cannot be said for nurseries.

Sage was right nurseries should be closed and I blame both the government and those who aren't part of an organised union for not being able to get them shut. For me nursery children need very small bubbles now with only minimal socialising to stop the spread of covid to them or their families.

This thread has certainly given me pause for thought but I'm in a different situation so it's probably easier to be objective.

I don't think it's helpful for each "side" to attack the other. Nursery workers are saying parents are being selfish when largely they might be in the same position as each other; nursery workers can choose not to work if they are understandably worried but probably won't get paid, parents can choose not to send their children to protect workers but quite possibly also won't get paid. Both scenarios in the worst case resulting in children without food and homes.

I can see a case for pressure from parents and workers leading to financial protection on both sides and understand that.

But on either this thread or another a worker described mums as "salivating" over nurseries being open which is just so unfair and distasteful when those mums are in many cases just relieved they can continue to provide a living for their children and keep roof over their head and food on the table, or to enable another key worker to go to work if their partner is a lower earning key worker.

Nursery staff I spoke to yesterday seemed to genuinely want to be open and to have all children in if they could, but I know that they are in a really difficult position and want to save custom.

It's odd that all of a sudden people are taking about nursery workers whereas before it was just school teachers.

I'd say they are a bit put out because you don't get to stay at home on furlough.

You couid probably get a shelf stacking job on more pay or a track and trace job or the like for more money anyway.

NC because this is understandably emotive and I’m sure many will not just disagree but hate. But these are the facts as far as the research allows:

1. SAGE does not find any difference in infection rates/transmission between under 5s and 5-10s. In fact most of its evidence on younger kids groups them into a single age group of 2-10, so doesn’t distinguish between primary school and pre school age groups.
2. Nurseries are private. Shutting them would require the gov to pay out compensation and furlough. So this predominantly an economic decision (teachers are still working, even if remotely, and are on the government’s pay bill anyway)
3. Nursery workers aren’t unionised, but also, if they push for closures, they will be left with 80% pay on furlough. That would be very tough on an already low paid work force, which is probably why we are not hearing so much demand for closure even though as we have seen on this board,

Many are understandably concerned about health risk

1. It’s hard to wfh with a primary school kid but even harder with an under 5. The gov wants as many people to keep working as possible. So again, keeping nurseries open is an economic decision, not a health one
2. While it will differ between children, the research on the benefits of “early years” generally finds benefits for the child only start from around 3, which is why that is when the free hours kick in. So again, keeping nurseries open is not for the benefit of children, it’s the benefit to the economy

And since my last post not one person has mentioned the nursery workers...just their selfish selves. I REST MY CASE.

People are selfish for not wanting to have to quit or lose their jobs? Rightly so. If childcare was forced to close fair enough, but as it's open employers will be expecting children to be in childcare and not giving the flexibility they did last time when they closed, when people had no option. People should be furious at the government, not judging people. Such compassion for an 'NHS frontline worker'