To wonder what is happening in Spain with Covid

[Snowrabbit]

I have family links to Spain and the huge, densely populated region where my contacts are living have very, very few restrictions! Bars and restaurants are open (reduced numbers), allowed people in your home etc. Yes there's is a curfew (at 11pm) but life is pretty normal. They have had far less restrictions than us for months. Why on earth are our cases running rampant despite loads of restrictions and their lives are pretty normal and no reports of hospitals struggling (they were struggling a lot in March so it's not that they have huge capacity compared to us) Feel envious(!) and struggle to understand what's happening.

At the moment rates of infection and death are much higher in the UK than Spain.

And the very strict lockdown did work in Spain, we went into the summer with very low rates. That was squandered by opening up too quickly and not being ready with track and trace. But it worked. Same as the municipal lockdown in andalucia all November and to mid December, reduced rates per 100.000 quite a bit. We're probably going back into that next week after opening up over Christmas.
Catalunya has just today announced a 10 day municipal lockdown.

At the moment rates of infection and death are much higher in the UK than Spain.

But there was a time when rates in Spain were among the worst in the world. Taking a broader picture, Spain isn't doing much better than Britain or most other major European nations.

And the very strict lockdown did work in Spain, we went into the summer with very low rates.

Obviously putting nearly everyone - including children - under virtual house arrest for 8 weeks is going to work in the short term. That's not in doubt. But my post was about the longer term, and in that context, Spain's very strict lockdown didn't prevent a major resurgence of the virus.

@snowrabbit - I live in east anglia , my sister is in Barcelona. I assure you it is not a haven of freedom. Have you read the description of rules give by others ?
-Curfew.
-mask wearing All The Time. No exemptions
-for the past few weeks (months?) municipal lockdowns at weekends/on bank holidays. This means no leaving your local area.

• finally: proper policing of the above - with on the spot fines. Not the British approach of asking people nicely to follow guidelines.

Madrid is completely different - driven mainly by political reasons, they have decided to slow some things such as limited hospitality /restaurants (this is my understanding).

But in the rest of Spain, trust me they are feeling limited/restricted in everyday life.

Spain's very strict lockdown didn't prevent a major resurgence of the virus. No, obviously not. But it did work to bring rates right down in a way that Britain's more lax lockdown didn't as much and the regional municipal lockdowns have worked recently because they go hand in hand with everyone wearing a mask everywhere in public and in all schools.
it's the hammer and the dance until the vaccines are fully rolled out. Britain isn't doing the hammer bit as well as other countries, that's why it has higher rates currently and is probably why it has a new variant too.

Madrid is completely different - driven mainly by political reasons, they have decided to slow some things such as limited hospitality /restaurants (this is my understanding). yy Madrid is governed by the rightwing PP party and had to be forced into lockdown by the national government in the autumn as it wants to prioritise business, it was the last place to make masks obligatory too.

their usefullness is limited. I think you'll find science begs to differ there....

Sorry, that should read
‘Decided to allow’ not ‘decided to slow’

Op Madrid isn’t the best example of Spain at the moment. Their pm (ayuso) is against any measurements so she’s trying to do the minimum that she’s forced to. She’s vaccinated 6% of the population despite she’s got enough vaccines and she’s taken really bad decisions like I.e building a hospital worth millions of euros in a few months , inaugurating it and then barely using it as they don’t even have theatres !
Numbers in Madrid are starting to go up quite a lot and yet no measurements will be put in place unless forced to.

Where I’m from (Basque Country) restaurants have been closed for months. They just opened for Xmas. They weren’t allowed to leave the city where they live.
Same happens in Catalonia where today they’ve announced new measurements and won’t be allowed to live the city and only essential shops opemed on the weekend.

The numbers are def going up again over there

@OrangeBlossomsinthesun

their usefullness is limited. I think you'll find science begs to differ there....

So you believe that 'science' says that the usefulness of masks is unlimited?

@orangeblossominthesun
Indeed, I followed that political disagreement between Madrid govt and central government with eye rolling.

I roll my eyes whenever anyone brings politics into Covid management (rather than science) so I do quite a lot of eye rolling!

Kids wear masks in the classroom from age 6.

they go hand in hand with everyone wearing a mask everywhere in public and in all schools

But if the usefulness of masks is unlimited, as you said 'science' believes, then why does Spain still have very high rates?

@IcedPurple

they go hand in hand with everyone wearing a mask everywhere in public and in all schools

But if the usefulness of masks is unlimited, as you said 'science' believes, then why does Spain still have very high rates?

Many of the infections are when the masks are out : restaurants / homes etc.

Saying masks have limited usefulness is usually people trying to justify why they shouldn't wear one, sorry if I am maligning you there. But the fact is that scientists agree that if everyone wears a mask then it is harder for covid to spread. Do people wear them correctly or all the time, well no, but a country where the law is that you must wear them at all times in public indoors or out is doing more to counteract the spread than one where you only have to wear it in shops and even that isn't enforced.
Masks are worn at all times by everyone in schools and (in my region at least) there is very little spread within schools.
I'm not saying Spain is doing everything right or has done everything right but the fact is that last week the UK had 50,000 cases and 981 deaths a day and Spain on the same day had 17000 cases and 247 (I think) deaths. So at the moment Spain has much lower rates. Partly because we all wear mask and there are restrictions across the country (Andalucía has just come out of a 6 week municipal lockdown) with limits on numbers in bars/restaurants/shops, curfews and limited opening hours for shops.
This idea that we're all doing whatever we want has been debunked by several posters WHO ACTUALLY LIVE IN SPAIN.

Saying masks have limited usefulness is usually people trying to justify why they shouldn't wear one, sorry if I am maligning you there. But the fact is that scientists agree that if everyone wears a mask then it is harder for covid to spread.

Well yes.

But you said 'science' said their use was 'unlimited' and that is clearly not true. MN is obsessed with masks, but they are only one of many tools in combatting spread of the virus. For the record, I have no issue with wearing a mask and do so whenever required, as does almost everyone else I see around me.

Partly because we all wear mask and there are restrictions across the country (Andalucía has just come out of a 6 week municipal lockdown) with limits on numbers in bars/restaurants/shops, curfews and limited opening hours for shops.

There are restrictions to varying degrees of severity everywhere in Britain and masks are required in most indoor public places, with high 'compliance' rates, despite what you read on MN. So doesn't sound that diferent to me.

There are restrictions to varying degrees of severity everywhere in Britain and masks are required in most indoor public places, with high 'compliance' rates, despite what you read on MN. So doesn't sound that diferent to me.
Masks are not compulsory in schools though are they and schools seem to be very bad for rates of infection at the moment from what I read in the news. That is not the case here. I know it's anecdotal but every time I see anything on the news with street scenes in the Uk half the people at best are wearing masks. Everyone wears them here.
Obviously something is different as the UK has much higher rates at the moment.
But that's not really my point, my point is that it is not true that we don't have any restrictions here as the OP suggests.

@veeeeh

Sorry now, but who gives a F about British immigrants.

The indigenous population are suffering too. WTF.

? How is this comment relevant?

Masks are not compulsory in schools though are they and schools seem to be very bad for rates of infection at the moment from what I read in the news. That is not the case here. I know it's anecdotal but every time I see anything on the news with street scenes in the Uk half the people at best are wearing masks. Everyone wears them here

Everywhere I go people are wearing masks and yes, the kids have to war them in school (not in class but when anywhere else like corridors, also on public transport).

In the UK, in case you were wondering. If you are seeing pictures of people not wearing masks, they were taken in 2019 or earlier or are outside where we don't have to wear them.

the kids have to war them in school (not in class

By the standards of most of the world, this is considered “not wearing masks in school” as they sit in the classroom with 30 children unmasked for hours each day.

Schools in Catalunya require masks on anyone aged 6+ most younger children are also wearing them, they want to be big like an older sibling, or have character masks that their parents have bought.

Restrictions start again on Friday - can't leave town unless for work, shopping centre is closed, extraescolar sessions will be closed (no piano lessons, no football club, no dance class). I'll be teaching via zoom again - yay, 9yos

But we can still get out to exercise, not like the March/April restrictions. So I can get out running, just not go to the pool.

@turnitonagain

the kids have to war them in school (not in class

By the standards of most of the world, this is considered “not wearing masks in school” as they sit in the classroom with 30 children unmasked for hours each day.

Exactly, what's the point of wearing masks in the corridors but not in class? elpais.com/ciencia/2020-10-24/un-salon-un-bar-y-una-clase-asi-contagia-el-coronavirus-en-el-aire.html Scroll down to "El colegio" and it has graphics showing the spread without masks (in Spanish). Also see the bit about speaking and how many particulates are expelled over time.

In the UK, in case you were wondering. If you are seeing pictures of people not wearing masks, they were taken in 2019 or earlier or are outside where we don't have to wear them. No, watching news reports on BBC World filmed since the new variant, at least half the people aren't wearing masks outdoors. Obviously they don't have to, but my point is, if you don't have to and you don't have to in offices and schools either well then far fewer people are wearing masks when they come into contact with others so obviously there will be more spread than a country where everyone is masked except in their own homes (an in their own homes they are limited to the numbers they can mix with). It's not rocket science.

Indeed @turnitonagain

Also I think you're missing the point slightly @annevonkleve with the comment on hardly anyone wearing masks on busy high streets, parks and queues. Instead of saying "Hmmm, yes, that is different," you're just pointing out that we don't have to.

@OrangeBlossomsinthesun

At the moment rates of infection and death are much higher in the UK than Spain.

Because Spain haven't reported since before December.