To wonder what is happening in Spain with Covid

[Snowrabbit]

I have family links to Spain and the huge, densely populated region where my contacts are living have very, very few restrictions! Bars and restaurants are open (reduced numbers), allowed people in your home etc. Yes there's is a curfew (at 11pm) but life is pretty normal. They have had far less restrictions than us for months. Why on earth are our cases running rampant despite loads of restrictions and their lives are pretty normal and no reports of hospitals struggling (they were struggling a lot in March so it's not that they have huge capacity compared to us) Feel envious(!) and struggle to understand what's happening.

@Keratinsmooth that's correct. And if you are out of your area for reasons which are accepted (work, medical visits) you must carry self declaration certificate. The same applies to being outside after curfew.

I think a lot comes down to Spain have had strictly enforced rules we have had guidelines

That doesn’t meant that are not broken but fines are much higher and police are visibly enforcing these rules on the street and that sends a message to others.

Also the new variant hasn’t hit other countries as badly as it had here. Unfortunately it will hit other countries but hopefully that shall act very quickly but this will have to be very strict restrictions

Strange. The whole premise of this thread is that Spain is doing better than the UK and the restrictions are much looser. Neither of those assertions are true. What's the point?

I’m wondering if @Snowrabbit has scurried away to find their mask.
I’m disgusted by the non mask wearers and I say that as a parent of a SN dc who struggles to wear one buy wear one they do.
I believe that their is a certain type of British people who think that rules either don’t apply to them or think they are above the rules.
You know the ones

You don't fuck with the Guardia Civil or the Mossos d'Esquadra. You are fined on the spot.

11 weeks trapped in the flat was beyond not fun. Thank god we have a dog, DH walked her in the morning, I walked her in the evening. DS didn't go outside, except once we went up to the roof with a flask of hot chocolate and picnic table to play cards. For half an hour. Saw nobody. However, I think if the Spanish government tried to do that again there'd be a mutiny!

I don't want to catch it, I don't want to pass it on. We wear masks, keep distance, wash our hands. It's not difficult.

In the UK we have far less denser housing, far fewer people living in flats or houses in three or more story buildings, than in Germany (think East Berlin for example), France (Hausmann era Paris) and Spain (think parts of Madrid). We are less tactile in normal times. We had warning of what was happening in Madrid and parts of Italy in March to enable us to act if the government had chosen to.

With those advantages when it comes to Covid 19, we should have had much fewer cases. Yet we did not, because of government inaction, and not setting any example (see comment about Dominic Cummings from another poster).

The description of rules and the role of the police in Spain did not surprise me.

Strange. The whole premise of this thread is that Spain is doing better than the UK and the restrictions are much looser. Neither of those assertions are true. What's the point?
I know. They've had a higher death rate than the UK for some time according to Le Monde and UK has only overtaken them in the last few days.

Masks especially in schools will do it.

We have fucked up consistently over masks. And schools, and masks and schools. We need a better attitude to masks

There are limits to how many people can meet indoors too, it's not a free for all.
Madrid is possibly the laxest place in Spain because it is governed by the right wing PP and they are handling it differently. Rates were high in the autumn in Madrid and the national government forced them into lockdown.
You keep repeating that restrictions are looser in Spain and multiple people are telling you that they live in Spain and that's not true.

I agree with PP that we have been unlucky with the new variant here, driving up numbers. But I also feel that the track and trace system wasn't effective here. Basically, unless you have the app enabled on your phone, you don't know if you have been in contact. Not everyone has the app. Some employers are telling employees to switch it off. It's likely that lots of people have just not been isolating when they are supposed to, especially if they have to go to work.

Also, schools have been a major spread here due to a) no masks and b) the ridiculous policy of only isolating pupils who were sat within 2m of an infected person despite everyone else having been in an enclosed space with them for an hour or more.

But I also feel that the track and trace system wasn't effective here.

Track and trace wasn't effective anywhere in Europe really

It’s amazing how people still don’t understand why we lockdown. It is to protect the NHS. We don’t lockdown for the flu yet that kills people but generally because of the vaccine the NHS isn’t overwhelmed by the flu.

The virus will spread as soon as lockdown stops - which is why we have to get the vaccine out.

Track and trace wasn't effective anywhere in Europe really

PP has described more stringent measures in Spain than here though.

Up until now, the UK was a few weeks behind the worst affected countries. The new variant has changed this, not just in the UK but also in Germany and Denmark.

I just hope Spain is not 3 weeks behind but manages to avoid the new variant completely. They had it very bad in March/April and I wouldn't wish their lockdown on anyone. Plus the country cannot afford furloughing millions again. Thousands of people affected by the first lockdown are still waiting to be paid by the government.

I had to go to Spain in the Autumn and felt much safer there. I only saw one person without a mask the whole time I was there and I couldn't believe it, it was so unusual.

One morning I went for a walk/run and it was quite hot even though it was early. My mask had slipped down below my nose and a Guardia Civil patrol car stopped and told me to pull it up.

Also in the supermarket, I saw shop staff tell customers to tighten their masks by twisting the strings to make it tighter. Everyone complies as they should.
Here there seems to be a million reasons why people can't or won't wear masks, it won't wash in Spain that's for sure.

Masks is a big part of it I think. Everyone wears them really at all times. Schools, exercising, even when 2 m apart outdoors. No exceptions really. Even those who could be exempt generally wear them.

During our municipal lockdown I heard of someone who was called to pick their child up from school sick. School was in a different municipality and the police stopped them at the roundabout and even when it was explained, fined them anyway and told them to come back with a doctors note later to have the fine cancelled. So, you hear things like that and you think twice about breaking municipal curfew.

When I go out in uk nearly everyone is wearing a mask and always have pretty much.

I live in Spain andan happy to answer any questions.

I'm pleasantly surprised by our low numbers.

The hard lockdown in March was very unpleasant with children but it seems so long ago now. Children are wearing masks everywhere just like adults from age 6 upwards and are fine about it. I was upset that my 7year old would have to wear them but he's got colourful football ones and is fine with it.

I'm worried about after Xmas because we have three big family days over the Xmas holidays: 24/25, 31-01 and05/06 January, so there will be a lot of people mixing wohh to different sides of the family.

I read a Twitter thread this morning that gave me some food for thought: "The UK is the new Italy"

I'm sharing it here because I think it adds useful info to the Spain vs UK comparison we are discussing:

twitter.com/tomaspueyo/status/1342986938677133316

@Schehezarade

Spanish police are armed, so are other police forces. You don't argue with someone with a gun, psychologically you are more wary.

And there are many more of them. I never see bobbies on the beat in the uk and more but you always see pairs of police strolling around town in Spain.

And they have the powers to fine you and do. The police in the UK said at the beginning they wouldn't enforce mask wearing in shops so it's nothing more than a guideline and everyone knows it.
Even in bars here you are supposed to keep your mask on unless eating and drinking and a lot (not everyone) complies with that too.

Morning, everyone. We've moved this to our Coronavirus topic now.

In the part of Spain where I lived (Euskadi) there are lots of rules and restrictions!

Allowed to have a New Year's meal on 31st Dec inside but 6 people max. Only places open on 24, 25, 31st Dec and 1, 5th and 6th Jan are pharmacies and petrol stations to prevent people gathering.

Everyone over the age of 6 must wear a mask when they leave the house.

Today's front page of "El Mundo" reports Madrid expecting a spike in the next week. Stories about people being fined for having New Year's parties.

If anyone speaks Spanish, here's the link to what they're doing region by region.

www.elmundo.es/espana/2021/01/02/5ff08b60fc6c8391038b4623.html

In summary - they're struggling every bit as much as we are, despite their "proper" lockdown in the Spring.

What I find puzzling is that there is a divide and I don't know on what lines the division lies

• the UK didn't lockdown soon enough, hard enough, often enough and rules are not well enforced
• the restrictions in the UK are too tough, they are unnecessary and we're all being lied to

@Alltheprettyseahorses

Strange. The whole premise of this thread is that Spain is doing better than the UK and the restrictions are much looser. Neither of those assertions are true. What's the point?

Weird, isn't it?

Most European countries seem to have broadly similar (high) rates. Even countries praised for doing well, like the Czech Republic or Germany, aren't doing so great now. Spain had a very tough lockdown back in the spring but it doesn't seem to have availed them much in the longer term. As for the MN mask obsession, most Brits are 'mask compliant' (!) too, but their usefullness is limited.