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Original poster

Looking likely schools will close. When should they be allowed to open?

165 replies

Billie18 · 03/01/2021 18:20

For those that believe they should close what would have to change for you to be happy with them opening? Is it a level of vaccinations if so what level? A lower daily hospital admission or death rate? Extra PPE? More Social distancing measures? Or is there a time limit on how long you think children should not be in school? Do you see any of these things changing in the near future?

Will just say that in my opinion they should stay open and I'm very concerned that they are closing.

OP posts:
CountessFrog · 04/01/2021 07:21

Honestly once they are closed, does anyone believe they’ll open before September?

Every last teacher will need to be vaccinated, and when they are, it won’t reduce the R number because that’s a totally different issue

notevenat20 · 04/01/2021 08:53

Honestly once they are closed, does anyone believe they’ll open before September?

Yes, this is the problem.

Original poster
Billie18 · 04/01/2021 08:56

@CountessFrog

Honestly once they are closed, does anyone believe they’ll open before September?

Every last teacher will need to be vaccinated, and when they are, it won’t reduce the R number because that’s a totally different issue

This is my fear a long term closure. When asking people who want the schools closed what would need to be in place before they would consider opening them there are vague answers about making them safer. As nowhere can ever be made completely safe and gathering people together always has and always will increase chances of infection then unless people are prepared to take a risk they will never open. As it is the risk to children is no higher than usual and the risk to staff is no higher than in other work places that are open. Most healthy people under 70/80 are not at risk of serious illness from coronavirus and this will be the majority of school staff.

Closing schools without an end date is reckless. We like to think that full time free education for all children is a right and that teachers are essential workers. But history and education provision tells a different story. Only recently and only in certain countries has education been considered essential. Shut schools long term and they may never open again fully unless people accept the level of risk that is present in schools today. If people do this then school closure and all the damage caused by closures will have been pointless. If people don't accept the risks involved with education then education will once again be limited to the limited few who can pay for their own provision. This is all far more scary than any virus.

OP posts:
2fallsagain · 04/01/2021 09:01

@CountessFrog

Nobody will ever agree what ‘safer’ means. If supermarket staff refused to work until their shops were ‘safer’ then who would agree what that meant?

Can anywhere be made ‘safer?’ Is there a consensus amongst teachers about what that means? I work in an nhs office where several caught covid despite all safety measures. Should we close?

Totally agree with this. What's the exit plan? Two week closure is pointless and once they close how do they justify opening them again? Im so worried about the development and MH of our young people.
Mumofsend · 04/01/2021 09:10

Close schools for 3 weeks get school staff vaccinated. When schools return then much stricter restrictions for outside of school time ie no soft play. Those with immediate cev family members in the same bubble given the choice to stay home for longer.

Anjo2011 · 04/01/2021 09:21

I am in East of England, Norfolk, the schools have been told the local authorities will support their decision to close. There is a big school in the city centre, close to a university hospital where they have early years in one site and primary in another. They have closed both sites without even key worker, vulnerable children provision. The same school closed the two sites early December for one case. They will be closed forever more at this rate.

notevenat20 · 04/01/2021 09:39

Close schools for 3 weeks get school staff vaccinated.

Isn’t it rather immoral to vaccinate a healthy 30 year old for whom covid is essentially no risk ahead of someone with has a 15% chance of dying if they catch it?

notevenat20 · 04/01/2021 09:41

Totally agree with this. What's the exit plan? Two week closure is pointless and once they close how do they justify opening them again? Im so worried about the development and MH of our young people.

Those who suggest closing for two weeks are not being honest. It would mean closing for months. And they never suggest cancelling the summer holidays to make up for it.

Anjo2011 · 04/01/2021 10:09

Once a closure has been ‘accepted’ as it were, re opening will be even harder. It cannot be an open ended closure otherwise we will have lost this whole academic year.

CountessFrog · 04/01/2021 10:28

It is immoral yes, but it’s what the teachers unions want, and they will hold the country to ransom until they get it.

And then they will say they can’t open because ‘children are the main spreaders.’ And they have to ‘prevent community transmission.’

But they will have got their vaccines any then. Ahead of the clinically vulnerable.

Why can’t clinically vulnerable teachers put themselves forward for the vaccine and get it?

Original poster
Billie18 · 04/01/2021 10:54

@Anjo2011

Once a closure has been ‘accepted’ as it were, re opening will be even harder. It cannot be an open ended closure otherwise we will have lost this whole academic year.
Already lost nearly a year with lockdowns, cancelled exams, limited opening, closures because of isolation and individual children forced to isolate. Some children have been lost from the register since March last year. Already exams being cancelled this year. So yes if schools close now with no plans to open it will be disastrous. It is total madness.
OP posts:
Original poster
Billie18 · 04/01/2021 11:03

@CountessFrog

It is immoral yes, but it’s what the teachers unions want, and they will hold the country to ransom until they get it.

And then they will say they can’t open because ‘children are the main spreaders.’ And they have to ‘prevent community transmission.’

But they will have got their vaccines any then. Ahead of the clinically vulnerable.

Why can’t clinically vulnerable teachers put themselves forward for the vaccine and get it?

I believe teachers are in for a shock. Unless something changes soon this country is heading for an economic disaster. Once schools are closed it won't be long before there is a push to furlough teachers or even redeploy them. Then how long before others who have lost jobs think its fair for some to continue to be paid for jobs not being done or how long will the country be able to financially support people who are not working.

I know this may seem dramatic but schools have already been closed for a year and I can see no way out if they close now.

OP posts:
BungleandGeorge · 04/01/2021 11:05

I believe they have plenty of masks now, I’m not sure why they don’t just send a supply to schools. You can buy them for under £10 for 50 so in bulk they can’t be that expensive. Children in secondary schools can wear their own. It’s not ideal but it’s better than not being in school at all.

HappyNewYear2021 · 04/01/2021 11:14

@StatisticalSense

Schools should be closed until mid Feb with no keyworker provision and no remote learning, with the summer holidays cancelled and full attendance expected (and exams pushed back until July and August).
🤣🤣🤣 With no kw provision who will be working in the NHS, care homes, supermarkets, transport, etc etc etc....

Obviously you are joking and taking the mick out of the hysterical peeps

BungleandGeorge · 04/01/2021 11:15

A lot of teachers and the public sector probably would quite like to be on furlough actually. Especially as you can work at the same time doing tutoring/ bank work/ locums. I don’t think we should forget that those working in many public sector jobs are working increased (unpaid) hours and under a lot of stress with no option of staying home. It’s not easy for many people

SionnachRua · 04/01/2021 11:24

Once schools are closed it won't be long before there is a push to furlough teachers or even redeploy them.

Lol, this is not anywhere near as scary as non-teachers seem to believe. Sitting at home with no work on 80% pay vs full pay for the headache of online learning? Sign me the fuck up.

CountessFrog · 04/01/2021 12:33

Radio 4 this morning discussing parents left without childcare being eligible for furlough.

Original poster
Billie18 · 04/01/2021 12:33

@SionnachRua

Once schools are closed it won't be long before there is a push to furlough teachers or even redeploy them.

Lol, this is not anywhere near as scary as non-teachers seem to believe. Sitting at home with no work on 80% pay vs full pay for the headache of online learning? Sign me the fuck up.

People are losing jobs. We are heading for the deepest depression in living memory. How long do you think it would be acceptable or practical to pay some people not working 80% wages and others nothing or universal credit? Many teachers have already been paid for almost a year on full pay with schools closed or partially closed. If schools close now I don't see them opening up any time soon. So how long before there is a call to only pay for work done? Maybe alternate work would be provided? Redundancies for those who refuse? Only fair...
OP posts:
Original poster
Billie18 · 04/01/2021 12:37

@CountessFrog

Radio 4 this morning discussing parents left without childcare being eligible for furlough.
I don't see the stomach for furloughing people for childcare, paying teachers full pay when the schools are shut when people are being left destitute. Do people really believe that everyone is going to be paid indefinitely to stay safe inside. Should we at the same time double the wages of anyone brave enough to continue working. Madness!
OP posts:
HeyBaby2020 · 04/01/2021 12:39

@CountessFrog

Honestly once they are closed, does anyone believe they’ll open before September?

Every last teacher will need to be vaccinated, and when they are, it won’t reduce the R number because that’s a totally different issue

They better be! I would not support any school closure and I work in one
HeyBaby2020 · 04/01/2021 12:42

@notevenat20

Close schools for 3 weeks get school staff vaccinated.

Isn’t it rather immoral to vaccinate a healthy 30 year old for whom covid is essentially no risk ahead of someone with has a 15% chance of dying if they catch it?

Then fucking open them and keep them open
HeyBaby2020 · 04/01/2021 12:45

@BungleandGeorge

A lot of teachers and the public sector probably would quite like to be on furlough actually. Especially as you can work at the same time doing tutoring/ bank work/ locums. I don’t think we should forget that those working in many public sector jobs are working increased (unpaid) hours and under a lot of stress with no option of staying home. It’s not easy for many people
Speak for yourself I’d rather be with my class 🙃
BungleandGeorge · 04/01/2021 13:14

I’m not speaking for myself or any individual, it’s a general point and will depend on your own circumstances and caring responsibilities etc. However, 80% is pretty much full salary for many when you consider reduced taxation and travel costs, it’s hardly a threat is it?

Our schools have certainly not been shut for a year, what schools have been shut that long?

year5teacher · 04/01/2021 13:16

For me it’s not so much about making the environment safer for me to be in - that’s not my priority. It’s the fact that so many NHS workers I have seen are speaking out about how having schools open will drive transmission higher and they can’t cope with it. So for me, it’s about the wider impact on the NHS and having cases drop while elderly and CEV people are vaccinated - this will make the number of people in ICU drop.

It’s not about working conditions for me as much as it is about the fact that the NHS is becoming overwhelmed and we need to give them some breathing space. Ideally schools would be closed for the absolute minimum time for this to happen.

year5teacher · 04/01/2021 13:18

People get so caught up in this petty “teachers need to be furloughed/redeployed, teachers want to be vaccinated above CEV people!!!” thing. It’s literally not about us or whether you think we’re this that or the other, it’s about having a functioning healthcare service across the country. It’s much bigger than any of us.