Looking likely schools will close. When should they be allowed to open?

[Billie18]

For those that believe they should close what would have to change for you to be happy with them opening? Is it a level of vaccinations if so what level? A lower daily hospital admission or death rate? Extra PPE? More Social distancing measures? Or is there a time limit on how long you think children should not be in school? Do you see any of these things changing in the near future?

Will just say that in my opinion they should stay open and I'm very concerned that they are closing.

Yes, the virus is soaring again.
It started soaring again when the schools reopened.
No one wants schools closed. No one wants this pandemic.
But school closures will push the R rate down.
So closures are unwelcome, but unavoidable.

Even better - why not just scrap compulsory education? It’s not like they’ll be any jobs for these children in the post Covid world - Great Depression, automation and offshoring of jobs will see to that. 👍🏻

Year 3000, after teachers have learnt to teach under water?

When Jupiter is in conjunction with Mars and Venus transits the House of the Ram.

And seriously we know from last time the r rate gets below one teachers cannot teach because oddly the only thing driving cases down is the one profession entitled to one hundred per cent furlough, not anything else shut which needs to open!. That is lucky but my kid will be back at legoland before anyone gives him more than a twinkle worksheets which I know you cannot mark, no purple pens!!

@Wsdhgujn

Year 3000, after teachers have learnt to teach under water?

@safariboot

Estimated R number sufficiently below one that schools can be opened and the R number remains below one.

I'm not sure that can happen without vaccination, because the UK government's failure to control covid-19 is what allowed the more virulent strain to evolve.

Or the decision is taken to give up and lose the fight, to let the virus win and kill a lot more people.

Not more virulent. More transmissible.

Otherwise generally agree, although I think if the Govt had shown some leadership, created a Tier 5 (schools closed) and explained the threshold at which areas would enter Tier 5, this situation wouldn't be spiralling out of control.

Still low (although rapidly rising) rates in my school's very deprived area. I still think it would be good to get kids in for a week or so to set the tone and actually prepare them for remote learning.

When all illnesses have been eradicated and no-one dies any more.

When I can be guaranteed that if my children or my family need hospital treatment (for any reason), the hospital treatment to the right level of care will be available.

@ForeverInADay

When I can be guaranteed that if my children or my family need hospital treatment (for any reason), the hospital treatment to the right level of care will be available.

I understand what you’re getting at but can that guarantee ever be given?

When R falls below 1 and they've put in proper investment and support to make schools a lot safer.

I think when numbers are lower , r rate below 1 and we know a little more about this strain as vaccinations are also rolling out hopefully that will help achieve these things quickly , but if schools are closing I think thaf needs a national lockdown
Tiers don't work and there is no enforcment stopping people travelling it seems

I’ve asked this before.

What’s the issue? Stopping transmission or protecting teaching staff?

Because it started out as closures required due to rates of infection and potential for transmission outside school.

And now it’s ‘vaccinate teachers’ but that wouldn’t stop transmission outside school.

So what’s the priority?

I am curious about this. No profession is 100% safe. A plumber will be entering people’s homes, care assistants are providing close personal care with ropey PPE, dentists are high risk etc. Ultimately there is a problem because children benefit from being in schools. It will never be 100% safe to do so. The unions ruined the chances of getting children back in the summer when cases were low. There needs to be a credible plan to when re-opening might happen. Would it be based on cases per 100,000 in the community, vaccination, ability of NHS to function, R rate?

The challenge with schools is children are not getting sick. They are losing out because of their ability to transmit rather than any risk to them. My daughter had covid and had a fever for 2 hours and coughed three times. She has been much sicker from noro. Clearly adults do get sick and die but it is a really tricky balance between benefits to children and the risks to their families and staff.

@Barbie222

R below 1 and case numbers at a much lower level.

This, but I think we should have rotas as soon as we can to make sure all children get a fair amount of face to face teaching. No cherry picked year groups and no long drawn out time with just key workers, I want to see all of my class in a safe way.

Totally agree with you. My school would have been able to open to all children on a rota in June (1 week in school and 1 out for example) and cater for key worker provision full time if the government had allowed it. We got so much learning done in our small groups in the summer and children progressed quickly due to instant feedback possible in a half class size. The government should get infection rates down ASAP then move to rotas until the R is below 1.

@Tiquismiquis

I am curious about this. No profession is 100% safe. A plumber will be entering people’s homes, care assistants are providing close personal care with ropey PPE, dentists are high risk etc. Ultimately there is a problem because children benefit from being in schools. It will never be 100% safe to do so. The unions ruined the chances of getting children back in the summer when cases were low. There needs to be a credible plan to when re-opening might happen. Would it be based on cases per 100,000 in the community, vaccination, ability of NHS to function, R rate?

The challenge with schools is children are not getting sick. They are losing out because of their ability to transmit rather than any risk to them. My daughter had covid and had a fever for 2 hours and coughed three times. She has been much sicker from noro. Clearly adults do get sick and die but it is a really tricky balance between benefits to children and the risks to their families and staff.

It wasn’t the unions who stopped children going back it was the government refusing to bring back year groups on a rota but insisting groups could be a maximum of 15 children. This is down to Gavin Williamson’s incompetence not the unions. The unions did not prevent schools from reopening to all in the summer.

@ForeverInADay

When I can be guaranteed that if my children or my family need hospital treatment (for any reason), the hospital treatment to the right level of care will be available.

But that is isn't about coronavirus that is about funding for the NHS. It's almost as if you want to keep children out of school as a form of strike action to increase NHS funding. The government could call your bluff. Free education for all is only a very recent introduction. It's not something that all countries have. We could be left without free access to education...

If we close schools because of very high rates of covid they won't be reopened until April at the earliest when we hope a lot of people are vaccinated. This would be a catastrophe.

@AbitSceptical

When all illnesses have been eradicated and no-one dies any more.

Sadly I think there are some that think this is an option

@Billie18
You honestly think that?
The whole education system in the U.K. will collapse if primary schools close for 2 weeks?
Do you sleep ok?

Either
When the hospitalisation rates are much lower.
Or
When a good percentage of the vulnerable population have had their vaccine.
Or
When they have understood the prevalence of the new variant and how infectious it actually is and how easily transmitted it is by children.
Or
When they have put in some meaningful measures to keep all adults and the pupils safe in line with a lot of other work places.

The whole education system in the U.K. will collapse if primary schools close for 2 weeks?

Nothing is going to close for 2 weeks. There is no prospect the infections will go down in the next two weeks. It will be months until enough people are vaccinated that we can say the situation has really changed.

@StatisticalSense

Schools should be closed until mid Feb with no keyworker provision and no remote learning, with the summer holidays cancelled and full attendance expected (and exams pushed back until July and August).

And who will be looking after the patients in hospitals, policing the streets, stocking the supermarket shelves, keeping power stations working? What a ridiculous suggestion.

No matter how many threads you start @Billie18 about schools staying open come what may it’s not happening. This is one of many.