How many teachers will be handing in the section 44 letter tomorrow and not going in?

[SoscaredforJan]

My DSis is scared to go to work tomorrow in a private primary school in Tier 3 but lowish numbers. She is not ECV but has got chemo damaged lungs so it petrified of catching Covid.

She desperately wants to follow union advice and not go in tomorrow but she’s worried that most teachers will be in as normal, she will have a black Mark against her and will be quietly pushed out.

Are there many teachers on here planning not to go in tomorrow? What do you think will happen tomorrow?

Do the prisoners you work with mix with tens/hundreds/thousands of households each day before going back to their own households, which with also have adults who're travelling between their home and place of work?

I may be wrong but when my dc are in primary school, am I not exposed to just as many

@Hearwego

I’m a prison officer. Although things are restricted, I still have to manage 30-40 prisoners with their needs. This is for 10 hours a day sometimes. I can’t strike because the Labour Party banned us from striking in 2007/8. I’m still at risk of being attacked/ assaulted/ spat at. I don’t why teachers are more at risk than me and me fellow colleagues. As for PPE, all I have is hand gel and a face mask. Same for supermarket workers. Imagine if these amazing supermarket staff decided they don’t want to go to work now....

It's absolutely terrible you have been banned from striking, but this is not a strike. In your situation, if you feel unsafe, I would find out if you can use the Section 44 too.

We are specifically told we can't wear face masks to teach, so we are literally asking for a protection you admit you already have.

If you, or supermarket workers, were being told that going to work was making things less safe for the country, would you continue? Because that is what is being said about schools by lots of different scientists.

I also don't understand the attitude that because your job is risky, everyone else should suck it up too. I'd support you in asking for anything you felt you needed.

BTW, I've been spat at this term, and had to break up a fight. I know it's not the same as adult prisoners, though. And I'm in close contact with at least 150 people, most days. But that's not the point. The point is that schools being open is unsafe for everyone (as in wider society).

oops!

I may be wrong but when my dc are in primary school, am I not exposed to just as many other households as the teacher?

**I don’t why teachers are more at risk than me and me fellow colleagues. As for PPE, all I have is hand gel and a face mask
Do the prisoners you work with mix with tens/hundreds/thousands of households each day before going back to their own households, which with also have adults who're travelling between their home and place of work?

We still have prisoners coming in from the courts every day. Plus our staff still go home everyday, using public transport, mixing in the communities.

@indecisivewoman81

I don't know where I stand. I work in an alternative provision where all the students are classed as vulnerable.

We are not a big setting, but the students are very unsafe and unruly on the whole and I don't feel safe.

We will remain open because every student is vulnerable. So I have no choice but to turn up every day don't I?

Do you have a union rep to talk to? Or could you talk to your regional rep?

The NEU advice did talk about distinguishing between those with e.g. ECHPs and those who actually need to be in school, but I don't know how that works in practice.

@finkking

Do the prisoners you work with mix with tens/hundreds/thousands of households each day before going back to their own households, which with also have adults who're travelling between their home and place of work?

I may be wrong but when my dc are in primary school, am I not exposed to just as many

You've just confirmed one of the major points and the the reason SAGE is advising to hold off on schools reopening. The burden this will place on our NHS as children mixing at school and then spreading to homes and the wider community.

@finkking

Do the prisoners you work with mix with tens/hundreds/thousands of households each day before going back to their own households, which with also have adults who're travelling between their home and place of work?

I may be wrong but when my dc are in primary school, am I not exposed to just as many

Exactly! Closing schools to children who can be at home will keep you safer as well as school staff.

@finkking

oops!

I may be wrong but when my dc are in primary school, am I not exposed to just as many other households as the teacher?

Well, yes. That's part of the problem.

@Fluffyowl00

Sorry ... it should say

Ooh Bagamojo...my smear test is a year overdue as I am currently on a waiting list due to a backlog because my GP surgery is working at 50% capacity.

I guess that is GPs like you have the time to clean it afterwards and to change their PPE. I’m ok with that because I don’t want to my GP to put themselves at risk.

But hey... I guess students are less important than you.

And I’d just like to thank my GP profusely for not being anything like some GPs you hear quite a lot from

We clean the room down for the benefit of the next patient. GPs don’t do smears, nurses do them. We are up to date with our smears. I guess some GP surgeries are working harder and managing better than others, much like schools.

Why can’t teachers wear face masks during lessons?

My understanding for AP is that they were about to be brought in line with special school guidelines, but don't quote me on that.

As I understand it section 44 applies to all workers so the question will be whether your setting has a risk assessment that adequately reduced risk to a reasonable level.

@SansaSnark I don't disagree just that I often see on the contentious school threads (which I avoid) that parents are throwing the teachers to the wolves. Logically the parents are also at risk.
By the way I have no issue with schools closing & keeping myself & staff safe.

@Bagamoyo1

Because we are prohibited to do so by our management within school.

“ Why can’t teachers wear face masks during lessons?”

Because the government have said they shouldn’t.

[quote SeldomFollowedIt]@Bagamoyo1

Because we are prohibited to do so by our management within school.[/quote]
And who in turn are following the DfE school guidelines who do not see the benefit of them in a classroom setting.

*We clean the room down for the benefit of the next patient.
GPs don’t do smears, nurses do them.
We are up to date with our smears.
I guess some GP surgeries are working harder and managing better than others, much like schools.

Why can’t teachers wear face masks during lessons?*

In many cases, teachers are told not to by their heads. At various times, the DfE guidance has said face coverings for teachers and students is a bad thing. I'm not sure what it says today.

Parents have lobbied to say that their children would find teachers wearing masks impossible to understand or scary/distressing.

I do think allowing and encouraging teachers to wear masks in school from the start would have allowed teachers to feel a bit safer, and we wouldn't have reached this point.

[quote SeldomFollowedIt]@Bagamoyo1

Because we are prohibited to do so by our management within school.[/quote]
My kids tell me that several of their teachers wear masks

[quote finkking]@SansaSnark I don't disagree just that I often see on the contentious school threads (which I avoid) that parents are throwing the teachers to the wolves. Logically the parents are also at risk.
By the way I have no issue with schools closing & keeping myself & staff safe. [/quote]
I think it's usually when people get emotional. It's hard to separate personal risk from wider risk.

[quote finkking]@SansaSnark I don't disagree just that I often see on the contentious school threads (which I avoid) that parents are throwing the teachers to the wolves. Logically the parents are also at risk.
By the way I have no issue with schools closing & keeping myself & staff safe. [/quote]
Part of the reason that the NEU are taking this action is because they believe school opening is unsafe for the wider community.

Everyone with a child in school or who interacts with a child is at increased risk.

We've been told that we can wear masks in class if we want to.

@Bagamoyo1

Aren’t yours in secondary? I can’t comment as I am primary but in our school we are not allowed to wear masks.

We are allowed to wear them in communal areas only which is pretty hilarious because the communal areas are empty 🤦‍♀️.

I've sent an email to our children's teacher to express solidarity if they choose to send the letter in. They deserve safe workplaces.

@SansaSnark Wearing a mask doesn't protect the wearer unless it's a medical grade one equipped with a filter, and those are in v short supply and only available for those working with covid patients at the moment. Putting a bit of cloth over your nose and mouth might protect the children from you, but it'll do nothing to stop them giving you covid I'm afraid.

I'm feeling a bit let down by my dd school, as they are staying open. I have signed the section 44 as feel it unsafe for the wider community for schools to be open. Many of the teachers at my dds school children go to my school. So I feel I am taking action to protect them, but they aren't doing the same for our community.

Decisions over school closures should have been made earlier, that's for sure.

Teaching staff handing in Section 44 forms on the day they are supposed to be returning to work is such a shambles. It means schools may have to announce a closure when pupils are arriving at school because of staff shortages. Parents have no clue what to expect now.

What a mess. The unions could have advised this 2 weeks ago.