How many teachers will be handing in the section 44 letter tomorrow and not going in?

[SoscaredforJan]

My DSis is scared to go to work tomorrow in a private primary school in Tier 3 but lowish numbers. She is not ECV but has got chemo damaged lungs so it petrified of catching Covid.

She desperately wants to follow union advice and not go in tomorrow but she’s worried that most teachers will be in as normal, she will have a black Mark against her and will be quietly pushed out.

Are there many teachers on here planning not to go in tomorrow? What do you think will happen tomorrow?

Absolutely teachers should be able to wear face masks. The parents that lobbied the government about them being scary for kids are the same people who’d complain if schools closed !!
I don’t think kids are scared of face masks, everyone wears them in shops and we have to wear them on school grounds when doing pick ups or drop offs. Our five year old is used to us wearing them.

What a mess. The unions could have advised this 2 weeks ago.
How? The government made one set of announcements on the last day of term, another at 6PM (iirc) the same day, then said they don't expect school leaders to work in the holiday, then published more advice, then did a shambolic press conference on Friday (I think it was Friday). Following the press conference heads were online having to ask whether the documents Gav referred to were the same documents that DfE made obsolete months ago. Then within 24 hours the DfE released different guidelines to schools.

Do you think unions should have known to act several weeks before the DfE made announcements?

Yes my kids are secondary so my comments are irrelevant for primary schools.

But surely if secondary teachers are allowed to wear masks, then the risk is massively reduced. And if they stay 2 metres from pupils the risks are reduced further. And with lateral testing, albeit not 100%, the risks will go down even more. Which is why I’m baffled at the reluctance shown by so many teachers on here.

The argument that masks are scary for kids is crazy. Even reception kids are used to them now. There are babies and toddlers out there who can’t remember seeing the whole face of someone other than their family!

So wouldn’t that be a better battle to fight? Being allowed to wear PPE? Rather than closing schools.

@Bagamoyo1

Well I am a primary TA so I am not allowed to wear a mask, and there’s no way I can stay two metres away from children supporting them with their work.

I would feel a lot more comfortable at work if I was allowed to wear a mask.
I think this is the point we are trying to make here. We would like some basic safety measures.

Thank you to all the teachers doing the right thing

I think a lot depends on schools individual Union Reps too. Some are obviously better than others.
Obviously some teachers on probation would be more wary of taking action, and some people are scared to take action because of their management team. They could feel that they would be pushed out.

It is the Department of Education that has said no to masks, my school is just complying.

@Hearwego

I’m a prison officer. Although things are restricted, I still have to manage 30-40 prisoners with their needs. This is for 10 hours a day sometimes. I can’t strike because the Labour Party banned us from striking in 2007/8. I’m still at risk of being attacked/ assaulted/ spat at. I don’t why teachers are more at risk than me and me fellow colleagues. As for PPE, all I have is hand gel and a face mask. Same for supermarket workers. Imagine if these amazing supermarket staff decided they don’t want to go to work now....

Primary teachers are more at risk than you because the aren’t allowed face masks, and their pupils are as young as 4 and don’t understand social distancing.

I get that some prisoners won’t give a shit and some will probably think it’s funny to cough or spit at you, but at the very least you’re allowed to wear a mask.

I believe that some prisons have restricted exercise, and reduced social time to limit spread. You can’t stop 4 year olds mixing in a classroom, they just don’t get it.

The dept of education only issued ‘guidance’ schools are free to use masks if they want to

[quote mumsneedwine]@Lovemylittlebear Hi. I have taken a job with the civil service doing stuff I used to do. Boring but can do it from home and it's shed loads more money. It's not going to be teaching but it's going to be safe. I applied via an agency and it happened v fast. Was in 2 minds until yesterday but the complete lack of regard for teachers safety has tipped me over and I'm off. Sorry not v helpful. [/quote]
I'm a civil servant and have never had the opportunity to work from home. As me and DH are key workers had to send my daughter to school. It hasnt been easy.

I'm an ex teacher and feel relieved I don't have to worry about this. Personally, I think the schools need closing. It's lives we are talking about here. I don't understand how anyone can be expected to take so much risk.

@Peaseblossom22

The dept of education only issued ‘guidance’ schools are free to use masks if they want to

The point is for masks to be beneficial they need to be worn by the majority. Until the DfE mandates them a school cannot enforce that they are worn.

@Bagamoyo1

The argument that masks are scary for kids is crazy. Even reception kids are used to them now. There are babies and toddlers out there who can’t remember seeing the whole face of someone other than their family! So wouldn’t that be a better battle to fight? Being allowed to wear PPE? Rather than closing schools.

Well, had the DfE mandated masks in schools in September, perhaps schools wouldn’t be closing now.

Let’s hope when they rewrite their guidance, they add some safety measures.

The teachers at my dc's primary wear visors, a few of the TAs wear masks, I only see one that doesn't, so I presume they've been given a choice. Is it at the school's discretion?

I'm watching this with interest from overseas. We are doing online learning until the end of February, & everyone has been wearing masks since September.

Solidarity to all my U.K. colleagues taking a stance to protect yourselves & the wider community - school buildings are manifestly unsafe with the whole school in, & I think it's quite surprising that so many don't understand that the proposal is for all teachers to continue to teach, whether online or on site to vulnerable/KW dc.

The point I keep coming back to is this: let's say you're a totally hawkish teacher hating type. You think we are all workshy chicken shits & we are at home in our pyjamas every time a school isn't fully open.

Fine, whatever.

But teaching in the U.K. has appalling & ruinously expensive retention rates - I'm involved in overseas recruitment & we will happily take the U.K.'s best teachers, thank you very much, & they'll get packages worth twice their U.K. salary & a far better work/life balance.

I also know several teachers who are just plain quitting, taking early retirement or planning to do supply.

I get that some posters don't like teachers very much. But then they get enormously upset at the thought of not having teachers do as they're told by an incompetent government, to their own detriment & at risk of their own & their families' lives.

Do you just want them all to bugger off? Or do you want them there to teach your children when the dust from all this has settled?

Make your minds up, teacher bashers.

I think it’s abhorrent that the whole country has to adhere to lockdowns and measures to reduce the spread of COVID except schools and teachers.... it’s insane, we all know it is.

It’s not just this but it’s everything pre-COVID too, teachers are treated like crap.

Everyone has a legal right to be safe as possible at work.

I haven’t read the thread so don’t if it has been discussed but I think it is a real stretch to say this is a s44 situation for the VAST majority of teachers.
Some pretty weak reasoning appears in the NEU guidance, to support the idea that ANY teacher can rely on s44. A serious imminent threat to a population as a whole is an entirely different thing to individual risk.

‘The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) Regulations 2020, state that they are made in response to the “serious and imminent” threat to public health posed by Coronavirus. This is a replication of the words used in s44 and s100 of the Employment Rights Act referenced above.’

I never understood why our government had seemed to like turning the public against the public sector.
Teachers, police, prison officers, Armed Forces.
They are treat badly by the government, the people who employ them.
Retention in the public sector has massively dropped in the last decade. These used to be seen as jobs for life.

Without showing an individual serious and imminent risk of harm, it is just plain breach of contract.

@CorvusPurpureus where do teachers get paid twice as much? It’s sounds attractive!

I don’t think retention will be the same issue in future. After losing jobs in 2020, I know of several people who want to train as teachers; it’s seen as secure, and it is.

I do think of this every time I read somebody on MN claiming they are ‘quitting’ or ‘handing their notice in.’

I get the feeling that a lot of posters are just thinking in terms of teachers moaning because they might become infected - which is a real fear. However, the bigger picture is that out of those 30 children in a classroom one or more may be infected but asymptomatic. As children are not the best at social distancing and our classrooms are too small and class sizes too big....they could potentially pass that infection onto a significant proportion of their classmates, as well as the teacher. Those classmates then take it home to parents. Some parents may decide that a play date is a good idea....spreading it to more children and more adults. Some of whom may well work in a supermarket, other schools, hospitals, GP practices, care homes......and so on.

That is why schools need to close so they can be adapted to cope with this strain which is more transmissible. So we can shut down a major route of infection in the community.

@CountessFrog

I don’t think retention will be the same issue in future. After losing jobs in 2020, I know of several people who want to train as teachers; it’s seen as secure, and it is.

I do think of this every time I read somebody on MN claiming they are ‘quitting’ or ‘handing their notice in.’

Training teachers is the easy bit, keeping them in the profession is another story.

Almost one in three teachers leave the classroom within five years of starting teaching, and more than one in six of the teachers who qualified in 2017 dropped out after just one year of teaching.

@CountessFrog

I don’t think retention will be the same issue in future. After losing jobs in 2020, I know of several people who want to train as teachers; it’s seen as secure, and it is.

I do think of this every time I read somebody on MN claiming they are ‘quitting’ or ‘handing their notice in.’

Tell them good luck.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.tes.com/news/exclusive-dfe-rule-sees-trainees-drop-out-over-classroom-shock%3famp