How many teachers will be handing in the section 44 letter tomorrow and not going in?

[SoscaredforJan]

My DSis is scared to go to work tomorrow in a private primary school in Tier 3 but lowish numbers. She is not ECV but has got chemo damaged lungs so it petrified of catching Covid.

She desperately wants to follow union advice and not go in tomorrow but she’s worried that most teachers will be in as normal, she will have a black Mark against her and will be quietly pushed out.

Are there many teachers on here planning not to go in tomorrow? What do you think will happen tomorrow?

They might be using different language for their own gains, but it sounds like a strike to me
They're using different language because what is being proposed isn't a strike

Naturally it didn't take long for people who've not bothered to get informed to start putting their spin on it

Everyone in this country has the right to safe working conditions and the legal right to challenge it, which is what some teachers are doing.

A strike is a form of industrial action that can only be taken for certain reasons and has to go to union ballot and meet a threshold before it is allowed

Feel free to tell me there's no difference though.

@TwentyTwentyOne

*The letter reiterates that staff are willing to continue to work, just not on site but wfh instead

So again I ask, what measures are teachers/the unions wanting the government to put in place in response to your action that would make you return to the classroom. Schooling can't take place from home indefinately so what solution/s are you hoping for.

Strike:

a refusal to work organized by a body of employees as a form of protest, typically in an attempt to gain a concession or concessions from their employer.

They might be using different language for their own gains, but it sounds like a strike to me.

Well it isn't a strike. You've repeatedly been told what a s 44 is.

To all teachers:

Can I suggest that we stop engaging with angry parents online?

We spend enough of our working days dealing with angry parents. There is a clear subset of people on Mumsnet who can only think in binary terms and have decided all teachers are lazy, selfish and just want time off work. They are clearly not going to listen to reasoned argument. There are some parents who are genuinely wanting to find out about the issues. But this is about the fifth thread I've been on today that has descended into vitriol.

to all the teachers and all other key workers running themselves into the ground throughout the pandemic. Please stay in the profession- the children appreciate you even though so many parents don't. You know this.

[quote Fr0thandBubble]@2020out - It's not body shaming! You can be as fat as you like and I couldn't care less but when you start using it as an excuse to stop doing your job, meaning my children lose out on their education and my job is at risk because I can no longer do it as I am having TO DO YOUR JOB FOR YOU INSTEAD, then it's not on is it?

I am sorry about your colleague but if you read my post you would see I DO have sympathy for those who have other serious underlying health conditions and I would hope that they could be covered by supply teachers. But that shouldn't mean all schools are closed![/quote]
You shouldn't have repeatedly told me to lose weight then.

I'm not using it as a reason not to teach. The fucking government have told me it's not safe to teach full classes because I work in London.

I just find the "no conditions under 60"statistic one of the most disgusting things I've ever read. I care about every person's life, not just those who don't have asthma or are 61. If you're not trying to defend the use of this statistic, then you can stop arguing with me.

There are not enough supply teachers to cover all of the clinically vulnerable. In my school, this would be at least 6 teachers out of 15 (I presume we're including the over 60s, given the stat that was trotted out didn't give a fuck about their lives).

TwentyTwentyOne

They might be using different language for their own gains, but it sounds like a strike to me.

Oh dear.

There is none so blind as those that will not see.

My dd is a teacher. She is working as are her colleagues.

Sorry ... it should say

Ooh Bagamojo...my smear test is a year overdue as I am currently on a waiting list due to a backlog because my GP surgery is working at 50% capacity.

I guess that is GPs like you have the time to clean it afterwards and to change their PPE. I’m ok with that because I don’t want to my GP to put themselves at risk.

But hey... I guess students are less important than you.

And I’d just like to thank my GP profusely for not being anything like some GPs you hear quite a lot from

NeurologicallySpeaking
I do agree with you.

I also think it's really important to point out, repeatedly if needed, where some posters are being goady and deliberately trying to stir up misinformation for their own reasons.

The way I see it is to think of the lurkers. If all they see is hysterical posts talking about teachers going on strike, and then whatever the DailyMail or some random parent on Facebook says, they're less likely to take the time to be informed. If lurkers see simple challenges to misinformation then those who can think for themselves will at least be aware of the facts.

[quote Fr0thandBubble]@2020out

You ought to be disgusted. You have "some sympathy" for those with type 1 diabetes who die of covid.

Oh for God's sake. I said that I have some sympathy with teachers who have serious underlying health conditions not wanting to go into school.

What I DO NOT have sympathy with is you saying that schools should be closed because there are teachers like you who are at risk because you are obese and a year into this virus have not rectified that.[/quote]
I'm not saying that.

And you are continuing to be utterly disgusting. You wouldn't speak to me like that in real life so why are you doing it here?

This has all reached such a crescendo I've no idea why the DfE don't just agree and close schools for Jan, certainly while numbers are 50k plus. Live lessons/ remote learning for all except vulnerable dc, dc of key workers and those without WiFi or laptops. What's the point of fighting it at this stage when there is so much fear and anger.

By Feb vaccine affects should be starting to show in the numbers so a phased opening could then be rolled out.

Fucking hell there are posters on this thread scraping the barrel of decency.

I'm going in, and happily so. So far, none in our schools aren't bar one isolating as per an app notification.

I do get that teachers are scared, but there are many professions where full PPE isn't available who just have to get on with things to keep the country running. Police, firefighters, care workers, retail staff, registrars, priests/vicars/imams/rabbis...etc., armed forces personnel, and the vast majority of NHS staff (full PPE only available for those on red wards, and social distancing impossible).

I’m a prison officer. Although things are restricted, I still have to manage 30-40 prisoners with their needs.
This is for 10 hours a day sometimes.
I can’t strike because the Labour Party banned us from striking in 2007/8.
I’m still at risk of being attacked/ assaulted/ spat at.
I don’t why teachers are more at risk than me and me fellow colleagues. As for PPE, all I have is hand gel and a face mask.
Same for supermarket workers. Imagine if these amazing supermarket staff decided they don’t want to go to work now....

@LolaSmiles

NeurologicallySpeaking I do agree with you.

I also think it's really important to point out, repeatedly if needed, where some posters are being goady and deliberately trying to stir up misinformation for their own reasons.

The way I see it is to think of the lurkers. If all they see is hysterical posts talking about teachers going on strike, and then whatever the DailyMail or some random parent on Facebook says, they're less likely to take the time to be informed. If lurkers see simple challenges to misinformation then those who can think for themselves will at least be aware of the facts.

I agree with both your points, Lola and Neuro. Call out the lies and misinformation but ignore the shameful insults as they are not worthy of a response.

I support teachers in handing their letter in, I hope enough do to force schools to close.

Worrying about children's academic attainment is a luxury at the moment. We need to shut schools now, not in two weeks when record numbers of people are dying.

My sister has given me a parents version of the letter so I can send it tomorrow. My dc13 has T1 Diabetes and hypothyroidism and I won't put him at risk for the sake of losing a tiny percentage of his schooling. His two brothers will stay home too, one of whom goes to a special school and the youngest who is in MS but really behind for reasons we aren't able to investigate while Covid is the priority.

We all need to pull together and put our own needs and worries to one side in this.

I cannot believe that any teacher wouid come on here and converse with all of these mumsnet bullies. You are like a bunch of mad nutty parents!!

Just because they are too afraid of catching it they want full blanket closure of schools. They each have their own agenda .. since when have you all given a shit about teachers and their health??

@NeurologicallySpeaking

To all teachers:

Can I suggest that we stop engaging with angry parents online?

We spend enough of our working days dealing with angry parents. There is a clear subset of people on Mumsnet who can only think in binary terms and have decided all teachers are lazy, selfish and just want time off work. They are clearly not going to listen to reasoned argument. There are some parents who are genuinely wanting to find out about the issues. But this is about the fifth thread I've been on today that has descended into vitriol.

to all the teachers and all other key workers running themselves into the ground throughout the pandemic. Please stay in the profession- the children appreciate you even though so many parents don't. You know this.

That's probably partly (wholly?) directed at me! Apologies. Just got a bit riled up by that poster. Probably shouldn't have quoted them so many times either

I think it's fair to say that school staff and parents are all at high levels of anxiety just now.

@HavelockVetinari

I do get that teachers are scared, but there are many professions where full PPE isn't available who just have to get on with things to keep the country running. Police, firefighters, care workers, retail staff, registrars, priests/vicars/imams/rabbis...etc., armed forces personnel, and the vast majority of NHS staff (full PPE only available for those on red wards, and social distancing impossible).

We're not talking full PPE.

We're talking bringing your own cloth mask and being told not to wear it by your management.

But I'd absolutely support any other group in taking action- especially if SAGE told them that continuing to go to work would make things worse for the country.

@newusername2009

Is it just teachers at risk of Covid? What about bus drivers, police, supermarket workers and delivery staff. Not to mention medical staff etc. So should everyone just refuse to go to work and let’s see what happens then.

Anybody who comes into contact with someone else is at risk of Covid.

However if you wear a mask and the person you come into contact with wears a mask the risk is reduced.

If you keep a 1m distance the risk is reduced. It’s reduced even more at 2m etc etc

If you only come into contact with someone for a short amount of time the risk is less than if you are with someone for 6 hours.

The less people you come into contact with not socially distanced and not wearing PPE, the better.

I’m going into an office tomorrow. There are two people in my office. We don’t wear masks but sit around 3-4metres apart. There are 2 in the next office and 3 in the office the other side. All keeping a minimum of 2 metres.

My boss is not asking me to attend a meeting/training with 30 other people, sitting next to each other with poor ventilation and no masks. If he did, I’d be refusing.

• I’m a prison officer. Although things are restricted, I still have to manage 30-40 prisoners with their needs. This is for 10 hours a day sometimes. I can’t strike because the Labour Party banned us from striking in 2007/8. I’m still at risk of being attacked/ assaulted/ spat at. I don’t why teachers are more at risk than me and me fellow colleagues. As for PPE, all I have is hand gel and a face mask. Same for supermarket workers. Imagine if these amazing supermarket staff decided they don’t want to go to work now....*

Surely the prisoners don't leave though? They aren't mixing in the community at all are they? Catching buses etc? Teachers also don't have face masks when teaching.

Supermarkets are a different thing altogether- every customer wearing a mask, mostly behind screens, short contact only. Far less risk.

I think it's fair to say that school staff and parents are all at high levels of anxiety just now.

Yes I agree. Helps me to understand process to get a handle on it.

I don’t why teachers are more at risk than me and me fellow colleagues. As for PPE, all I have is hand gel and a face mask
Do the prisoners you work with mix with tens/hundreds/thousands of households each day before going back to their own households, which with also have adults who're travelling between their home and place of work?

Schools are a complex situation because they are grounds for hundreds to thousands of households to mix in poorly ventilated spaces with almost no social distancing.

Given how much uproar there has been over section 44 action, I do hope everyone who is criticising teachers for wanting safe schools so they can remain open and minimise disruption would be equally happy for their child's school to close due to staff absence.

I don't know where I stand. I work in an alternative provision where all the students are classed as vulnerable.

We are not a big setting, but the students are very unsafe and unruly on the whole and I don't feel safe.

We will remain open because every student is vulnerable. So I have no choice but to turn up every day don't I?