Is there going to be any announcements today?

[ilikexmas]

I cannot see anything on the news.

didn't the hospitals do this?

Why were hospitals under-resourced so that they felt they had to do this? Why was there no proper test available to those old people, so that a known infection didn't spread?

What exactly is the point of a Government if they don't take charge of these issues?

What exactly is the point of a Government if they don't take charge of these issues?

The NHS trusts made these decisions.

I thought people wanted the government to listen to people who were working in the NHS and schools, not make decisions for them.

@Oysterbabe

I largely agree with what Boris is saying on Marr. Risks are low, for most it is a mild illness, the benefits of attending school are huge. Secondary school return is already delayed, all but essential shops are closed in much of the country, steps are being taken to slow transmission. We can't stop everything. Younger primary school children cannot be taught remotely in any useful way so should attend.

Schools are uniquely unsafe workplaces.

@MrsMiaWallis

Discharging old people with covid into care homes, who then spread the infection certainly made it look as though they didn't care didn't the hospitals do this?

This was a case where it wasn't intentional. They didn't deliberately do it but enough wasn't known and it was an awful fatal misjudgement.

The main issue imo with this is rather than explaining and accepting (Sturgeon did) they continued on about their world beating etc.

On the surface having an open budget for social care to remove red tape and clear hospitals was on the surface a good idea.
Sadly it was fatal as it turned out people had the virus and transmitted it when asymptomatic

DS goes to a small private school, his class sizes maybe smaller 20+ rather than 30+ but the classroom is smaller too so no more social distancing available than in a state school. They haven’t got the money to suddenly produce more classrooms and staff (well they would if they doubled our fees but that isn’t going to happen)

(well they would if they doubled our fees but that isn’t going to happen)

Are you sure about that. Ours have gone up 10%

I don't understand why the government have made it mandatory for all schools to have online provision in place and then not play that card when it's needed. Now is the time to use that plan for the next few weeks. That was set in October. They have said since last spring that winter was going to be awful, so it's no big surprise. Also, kids in independent here, and I have taught in state sector. Kids school classrooms are absolutely tiny due to the age of the building. School are having to find funds for all of the testing and equipment which obviously was not factored in for previous budgets. Fees have been held for now (lots of families have been hit badly by covid so we don't all have the income we once did). All kids, teachers and schools are up against it.

If schools are safe, why has the DfE closed all schools in London and parts of the South East? Why has it closed schools in some areas where the rates are lower than other areas nearby which largely use the same hospitals? Does it make sense for the DfE to be the one making these decisions, without adequate explanation as to the reasoning, when they appear slightly illogical/random, given the “safety” of schools? It almost feels as though it is just keeping some areas open as a test, without keeping too many areas open, in case it’s a massive mistake.

@Cam2020

No probably not because the government have no respect for schools staff or parents and don’t care about their concerns regarding safety or the impact of schools in the NHS

Absolute bollocks. The government are trying to keep the country going as best they can. People cannot work without primary schools being open. They are trying to balance safety with preserving the economy.

They are not doing the best they can.

They are not doing a considerable number of things they could do, if they chose to, both to improve the public health and economic outlook.

Since schools are safe (hmmm) with all those doors a windows open in mid winter how are these kids going to use their knives and forks?

He said "schools are safe" and he also said they were concerned that cases in schools pushed community transmission. So, err......does this mean that covid can be caught in schools and taken home to families? I mean, that's what the Womble said. So Bojo are schools safe or not. I turned it off, he just can't answer a direct question and the more he speaks the less sense he makes. He makes a fool of us and himself.

I will send DS in yr11 in on the 18th. I have no choice. Should my son bring home covid and this cabinet of wobbles close schools a week later I will consider their actions a direct threat to my right to life. I agree with inquietant but would go further and say that they are not just failing to protect life but actively choosing actions that endanger life now.

To know what to do and to do otherwise is immoral.

I'm a single mum I can't afford to get I'll who will look after my children? My mum us isolating, my sister doesn't drive and their dad is not on the scene.
My child at primary may be 'safe' at school, but I may not be safe if brought home.
I'm not sending my child to primary tomorrow.
Our primary school had loads of positive cases before October half term, but we were lucky not to have to isolate.
I think the schools need to close and let the virus die back a bit.
I don't want another summer of lockdown.
I really feel for all the teachers, TAs dinner staff and all the other school staff who have been working so hard and have all this uncertainty.

I think the rationale for which schools have been told to close and which haven't is probably based on theories which probably make perfect sense in the mind of those who devised them but are somewhat unpalatable and not appropriate for press releases.

For all these restrictions, the people receiving the benefit (those in vulnerable categories who are most likely to get seriously ill or die) are not the people who will lose most from the restrictions (young families whose livelihood is being destroyed, children losing education that they may never catch up on, trapping them into poverty for a generation) so conflicting risks and harms need to be balanced. It isn't intrinsically terribly dangerous for children to go into school. Yes the virus will spread but the majority of children won't be harmed by that. Vulnerable teachers will be harmed if schools stay open. Vulnerable children will be harmed if they close.

Someone with a spreadsheet has quantified all these harms, including quantifying the socioeconomic groups of the families that use each school and assessing their probabilities of being able to provide reasonable education support and safety at home if the school is shut, and they have derived a formula to decide whether the balance leans towards more harm being done to more people if schools shut, or more if they stay open, for each area. This equation could quite reasonably dictate that children in a deprived area like Harringay are better off with schools open for example.

It is well-meaning but publicising the rationale would cause an outcry obviously. The question I want to ask is whether the quantification of harms done is based on sound facts and provable research or whether it's on unfounded assumptions about what will go on behind closed doors in the areas where they want schools to stay open.

@KihoBebiluPute - that doesn’t fully explain all the choices. Random county, borough and district boundaries are also clearly involved, as you would expect with Central Government making decisions instead of leaving it to the knowledge and understanding of the localities themselves.

Also, @KihoBebiluPute, it’s rather a dim analysis when “closed” schools are required to stay open for those identified as vulnerable, anyway. I am quite certain that someone in central Government did not sit down with a spreadsheet and make decisions school by school!!!

The Daily Telegraph understands that discussions about the return of shielding and a further announcement on the closure of schools (in the context of there being more restrictions) could come as early as this week.

"But by golly keep the schools open cos its all safe for us dear little cherubs piffle piffle waffle".

Its amazing how he's saying one thing to the public on Marr whilst its already known internally in government that more closures are on the cards.

Some of us can read data. We are fucked. Really truly fucked. Schools will have to close.

Some of us can read data. We are fucked. Really truly fucked.

Agree with this. Can't believe Johnson was playing it all down yesterday - he said it wasn't as bad as autumn . He is completely out of his depth.

The other reason schools will surely close is 68% across entire population support them - and crucially I think it was 66% amongst Conservative voters. Those opposing closures shout loudly but they are a smallish group.

The data is absolutely terrifying. The government have lost control in the literal meaning of the word.

I suppose 'lost control' is a phrase not a word!

Schools are uniquely unsafe workplaces.

I don’t think there is any data to support this claim. Dental hygienist seems to be the worst.

@notevenat20

Schools are uniquely unsafe workplaces.

I don’t think there is any data to support this claim. Dental hygienist seems to be the worst.

Yes so far I'm not sure I agree with this. But perhaps the new variant might change things.

@notevenat20

Schools are uniquely unsafe workplaces.

I don’t think there is any data to support this claim. Dental hygienist seems to be the worst.

You can't compare dental hygienist to school!

That is ridiculous, everything is completely different. The hygienist I saw wore full space suit virtually. A droplet could not have reached her - unless her PPE was ill fitting or she picked her equipment.

Teachers are very much at risk. The risk to wider society from schools being open is also very great.

The risk to wider society from dental hygienists is almost zero.

Oops, picked= licked

Wow inquietant.

Nurses? Hairdressers? Supermarket workers? At least teachers can stand 2m away in the classroom and open windows!

@MrsMiaWallis

Wow inquietant.

Nurses? Hairdressers? Supermarket workers? At least teachers can stand 2m away in the classroom and open windows!

Now that’s funny. That’s what you’ve been told.

@MrsMiaWallis

Wow inquietant.

Nurses? Hairdressers? Supermarket workers? At least teachers can stand 2m away in the classroom and open windows!

you have obviously not been on a school recently. Most have non opening windows, small classrooms with 30 pupils packed in do not allow for 2m distancing and teachers are not allowed to wear masks.