Is there going to be any announcements today?

[ilikexmas]

I cannot see anything on the news.

@inquietant Just wow!! You said I was either lying or ignorant, then called me snidey for acknowledging what other posters have said on this thread about teachers being advised they can choose not to go in, and state schools closing of their own volition after you having been the one who insisted that private and state should be treated differently. Then tried to gaslight by suggesting I was getting nasty! We are all finding this hard and want the same, just back off.

@MinnieJackson
How much is the fine if we don't send our primary children back yet?
Don’t worry about the fine, just ring them in sick.

How can parents feel confident about sending their children to school under these circumstances?

Many of us don't and won't be sending them on Monday regardless of whether they open or not. The BBCs response to the unions is to run stories about how so many children will have forgotten to use a knife and a fork by now. I'm sure for some this may be the case but as a parent it feels like a slap in the face. I'm capable of caring for and supporting/learning my children. I guess the children fully home schooled are still using their fingers to eat aged 16

It’s not about children catching Covid (Although no one wants their child to be ill). It’s not even about the teachers and other school staff, although it is appalling they are being forced to work in such a dangerous situation. It is about community spread and the effect on the NHS. Children catch Covid and spread it to their families who then spread it onwards into the community- through work, and through other things like shopping. When the hospitals are on their knees, you surely have to shut down all mass spreading events including schools.

Not necessarily in the whole country, but definitely in the worst hit areas. Including these:

“Rushmoor (817 cases per 100,000 people in the week to 28 December), Slough (777) and Spelthorne (721) are all in the south-east of England and subject to the strictest tier of coronavirus rules - tier four.
In Rushmoor where cases have increased by 54% week-on-week, the case rate is higher than 26 local authorities where primary schools will remain shut on 4 January.”
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55333685

Our independent have already planned what they are doing - full remote learning until the 18th. They are more organised than the government.

@SnowGnome

Given that Starmer has neither confirmed nor denied reports (afaik) that he’s set to resign today, I’m wondering if the govt will leverage whatever he does to throw out more changes? It could serve as a good deflection in the media from full on attack over schools and hospitals crises, otoh they will want Labour to get as much bad press as possible and wouldn’t want to ruin their moment in the spotlight by announcing more measures at the same time. Hard to tell.

I think it will also depend on rates, there’s a huge lag of data due to bank holidays and suggestions that we could actually be close to 70k positives once all are accounted for. Terrifying stuff. He just can’t do nothing if that’s the case (although this is Boris, and we all know doing nothing is something he’s very good at)

That Starmer is about to resign??

The Stsrmer resigning thing is just a twitter wind up isn't it?

The thing people also forget is that teachers want to teach - online is not easier for teachers it is harder, they want what is safe for children and themselves, they are not trying to skive off as a lot of people are implying.

@inquietant I work in a independent school and there is virtually no measures in place, except for bubbles of over 30 plus 5 adults. Oh, and a face shield for staff meetings where we all sit in a small hall together and the head won’t open the door because the children make too much noise outside. There is plenty of anti bac spray for us to keep cleaning all day long though-lucky us!

Our primary is a large one, over 600 children, in tier 4. Had a cheery message from school yesterday to say they are looking forward to welcoming us back. I expected at least a mention of the uncertainty.

I think they will keep with most primaries being open, then possibly announce a full closure after the rates inevitably surge. They have been so adamant school is the best place atm and where it is safe to do so keep them open, so unless hospital admissions etc get bad elsewhere they will keep them open

[quote SnowGnome]@inquietant Just wow!! You said I was either lying or ignorant, then called me snidey for acknowledging what other posters have said on this thread about teachers being advised they can choose not to go in, and state schools closing of their own volition after you having been the one who insisted that private and state should be treated differently. Then tried to gaslight by suggesting I was getting nasty! We are all finding this hard and want the same, just back off.[/quote]
I'm pretty angry today, and I'm incredibly tired of people in the fortunate position of not having to deal with the shitshow that is today's English state education telling us it is the same in independents. It isn't the same.

But I was indeed arsey to you personally, and I apologise sincerely for that .

[quote Happymum12345]@inquietant I work in a independent school and there is virtually no measures in place, except for bubbles of over 30 plus 5 adults. Oh, and a face shield for staff meetings where we all sit in a small hall together and the head won’t open the door because the children make too much noise outside. There is plenty of anti bac spray for us to keep cleaning all day long though-lucky us![/quote]
I'm sorry your school is like that. I only have detailed knowledge of two local independent schools and both are much better. I have read much about the additional scope to take action in the independent sector.

Not least because the parents can choose to send without fear of prosecution!

@itsgettingweird

December I know it's the government not releasing the data? I'm not sure if you highlighted my post to question my knowledge or in response to OP?

I'm fully aware the government won't release data or the science behind opening up because it is contradictory to their stance.

What's criminal is the fact they get away with it

It was meant as reinforcement but badly worded, apologies. I'm steaming mad and I'm not even teaching any more.

I'm so worried about my teacher friends.

The story about the not using a knife and fork or hold a pencil is not a school issue that is a parenting issue. If a parent is unable to ensure their child keeps the most basic skills then there is something wrong

Inquietant
I wish MN had likes.
I would like each of your posts.
It is blatantly obvious to anyone, that schools are not a safe place to be right now.

@Aimee1987 this is why my eldest may have a "nasty asthma cough" come Tuesday when she is due to go back. So she will already be at home when the inevitable nationwide full lock down.

This is of course easy for us as I am not working right now and am a teacher myself.

I feel so sorry for school staff right now!

The honest answer is this particular government don't care if people die. They don't care who, and they don't care how many

Do you really believe this?

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Is there going to be any announcements today?68
OP’s posts: See all
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Today 07:38Aimee1987

My guess is they will let them go back for about 1 perhaps 2 weeks so I would guess there will be an announcement next weekend for nationwide lockdown with school closures.
But I dont thing even the goverment have an idea of when they will close them so it's all speculation.
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Today 07:38inquietant

@SnowGnome

Independent schools have the resources to provide the measures the government pretends state schools have.

State schools have no SPACE so even the basic 'hands face space' is a big fat lie in state schools.

People who pretend there is no disparity between state and independent are either lying or ignorant.
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Today 07:40TheDogsSkivvy

The NEU has told members not to go to work on Monday, so that is telling. I'm a retired teacher & still in the union - there will be a Zoom call for union members at 4pm.

I can't see the government avoiding the pressure to delay the opening of schools, as is the case now in London. The safety concerns are very real, and most of the other unions (NAHT (headteachers), NASUWT, and GMB (support staff) are also demanding delayed return and a proper plan to introduce better safety precautions.

I think schools will be letting parents know something today - I'd be very surprised if they didn't.
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Today 07:412anddone

Unions have told local authorities that it is up to the head teachers and governors to decide whether the school opens if their school is in tier 4 but not in London. This is going to cause mayhem we have 6 schools in a 6 mile radius and all could be doing different things!
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Today 07:42Beebityboo

I just don't understand how they can think opening as they were last term won't be a catastrophe with all the information/data they have access to? Why not take action before more people die?
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Today 07:44itsgettingweird

lockeddownandcrazy

When you get propaganda that says 'lockdown kids forget how to use a knife and fork' you can see that schools are being used to provide free childcare and prop up poor parenting, rather than education.

Teachers aren't frontline for vaccines, children don't get them anyway, so the spreading will continue but the government doesn't care.

I was shocked at ofsted report about cutlery and regression into nappies.

This is social care and not education and a laments responsibility.

All I thought was government had rolled out their ofsted inspectors because they thought people would take more notice?
I was confused by the message as a reason to keep learning in classroom rather than online and rota bases of face to face learning.
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Today 07:44Graciebobcat

If the government think for a minute that pupils in Tier 4 secondary schools can return en masse on 18 January, they have another think coming.
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Today 07:46itsgettingweird

December I know it's the government not releasing the data? I'm not sure if you highlighted my post to question my knowledge or in response to OP?

I'm fully aware the government won't release data or the science behind opening up because it is contradictory to their stance.

What's criminal is the fact they get away with it
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Today 07:46Graciebobcat

If the teachers don't strike in those circumstances, I'll organise a parent strike.
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Today 07:49THATbasicSNOWFLAKE

My childrens primary school has notified us there will be no school except for key worker and vunerable children probably for at least two weeks

Other local schools however have sent out emails reassuring parents they will open as usual

The government need to say something
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Today 07:52Peregrina

Whatever he announces, he will reverse it and do the opposite less than a day later. Unless he's made a new year's resolution to start taking the job of PM seriously.
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Today 07:53inquietant

Beebityboo

I just don't understand how they can think opening as they were last term won't be a catastrophe with all the information/data they have access to? Why not take action before more people die?

The honest answer is this particular government don't care if people die. They don't care who, and they don't care how many.

That has been obvious since the beginning.

They vaguely care about completely overwhelming the NHS because that will affect re-election 2024, as it would impact the 'most competent' question.

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Today 07:55SnowGnome

@THATbasicSNOWFLAKE what tier / area are you in? I haven’t heard of that around us, we are in v high prevalence T4 area outside London where schools aren’t yet set to close.

@inquietant I don’t want this thread either to be derailed or to turn nasty so I’m just not going to engage on the state v private debate any further. Especially as it seems that state schools and teachers are able to vote with their feet (as appears to be happening above) and how the govt deal with it, that’s the key thing to be focusing on.
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Today 07:58inquietant

@SnowGnome there's no need for you to turn nasty, I certainly wasn't going to.

The snidey remark about state teachers voting with their feet shows what you think clearly enough.

Teachers in state schools are facing serious risks, those in independent schools know nothing about it, hopefully if they listen they will learn something.
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Today 07:59MinnieJackson

How much is the fine if we don't send our primary children back yet?
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Today 08:02nosswith

@HankMarvinjg technically his actions are manslaughter, I prefer to call him a serial killer.

I hope he is made very uncomfortable by Andrew Marr but doubt he will be, as the BBC is scared of the threat of decriminalisation of the licence fee.
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Today 08:03nosswith

@Peregrina he may make a New Year's resolution, but probably not keep it for very long.
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Today 08:03inquietant

MinnieJackson

How much is the fine if we don't send our primary children back yet?

If you are fined, it is £60 per child per parent?

This of course is the other freedom in independent schools - you can excuse yourself.

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Today 08:03THATbasicSNOWFLAKE

We are Tier 4 but rates are relatively low for T4. The school was badly hit with Covid between Sept and Dec though.
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Today 08:06itsgettingweird

The most recent advice from SAGE is that schools should not open in January other than for children of key workers and vulnerable children. This is because the scientific advice is that it is not safe for schools to open. There are new variants of Covid-19 that are highly infectious and infection rates have increased significantly since schools closed.
I appreciate that measures have been in place since September to allow the school to open but according to SAGE those measures may no longer be sufficient. They state in their most recent report: -
The introduction of Tier 4 measures in England combined with the school holidays will be informative of the strength of measures required to control the new variant but analysis of this will not be possible until mid-January.

So it appears where the horse has bolted they are following advice.

But they aren't taking preventative measures elsewhere or in fact "following the science" as they claim.
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Today 08:10Ihatefish

If you want to keep your kid off (and are in the advantages position you can) literally every kid has a cold at the moment -just keep them off pending a COVID test that you can’t get.

If unions are telling people not to go in to work so they have to (sorry I have no idea) or ring in sick.

Teachers need prioritising for the jab -yes over old people. 80 year olds can stay at home generally and sheiks. Teachers can’t. Schools are necessary to the running of the economy. I’m generally a Boris supporter but they really fucked up over this tbh
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Today 08:11MinnieJackson

@inquietant that would be £120 for us that we don't have to spend on fines sad we all live with my mum and she has copd. I don't know what to do for the best. Hopefully there will be some definite news by this evening. We had an email from the head last night saying our area is in 'the eye of the storm' but we're tier 3, with the highest increase in cases confused
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Today 08:13inquietant

MinnieJackson

@inquietant that would be £120 for us that we don't have to spend on fines sad we all live with my mum and she has copd. I don't know what to do for the best. Hopefully there will be some definite news by this evening. We had an email from the head last night saying our area is in 'the eye of the storm' but we're tier 3, with the highest increase in cases confused

If your school.opens Monday can you not say the children are ill?

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Today 08:14inquietant

It is a disgrace people are in this position.

Words can't really express how angry I am today.
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Today 08:19wanderings

While the briefings themselves are piffle waffle nonsense (and probably Saint Boris's personal highlight of the week, because he gets to play the clown for a few minutes, in the boring job of being PM), one good thing about all this is that the government is being forced to do something about their own mess.

If the government deliberately exaggerated the new strain of the virus (which I strongly suspect they did, to scare people into not mixing at Christmas), their crying wolf is coming back to bite them. We had the border issues, and now the teaching unions are taking the governments placard waving "Ooooooooooooh, the virus just got a whole lot more deadly!" seriously. Also, I think the government chose now to announce the school closures, while people were still in "holiday mood". If they had announced it before Christmas, people would probably have rebelled angrily by mixing over Christmas.

The public mood is fickle: right now, they are screaming "Close the schools!", and Boris's main strategy seems to be to do whatever he thinks the public wants. After a lack of school for a week or two or three, people might then start pleading for the opposite to happen; the government will do their U-turn, and a handpicked scientist will be bribed into saying "actually, having observed it, the new strain is not as bad as we thought. Back to school!"

@itsgettingweird And yes, it's the way the government is hiding everything, gaslighting, and lying that is really criminal, and that's what we really need to be getting angry about. That fight needs to go on after the pandemic has eased: that what we're really angry about is the deception behind everything. If their campaign wasn't so full of lies and doublespeak, I would have respected lockdown much more. And I still haven't forgiven Bliar for lying about weapons of mass destruction. That's the bigger issue: why do tolerate so much deception by the government, whose wages we pay?? Ordinary people get sent to prison for lying about much less (e.g. who was driving a speeding a car).*

Great post wanderings

Sorry, my cut and paste went too far! Meant to just add wandering's excellent quote

Teachers need prioritising for the jab -yes over old people. 80 year olds can stay at home generally and sheiks. Teachers can’t. Schools are necessary to the running of the economy. I’m generally a Boris supporter but they really fucked up over this tbh

But it's not just about the teachers, apparently the latest strain of covid is affecting children more than adults, so it's the children who are in the most danger.

Oh don't worry December. I wasn't annoyed I just didn't understand and wondered if maybe I hadn't made my point clear! It's great to keep highlighting the important facts. And I'm angry too. It's ridiculous.

I don't work primary. It's secondary special. I'm not a teacher as I'm specialist support role. I do that and cover PPA. If I had to enter classrooms of 30+ students I'd be sending in my unions letter. But my classes are 6-9 students and all vulnerable so I'm only doing what teachers are offering to do.

I support them wholly.

@middleager

Sorry, my cut and paste went too far! Meant to just add wandering's excellent quote

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

@Lifeispassingby

The story about the not using a knife and fork or hold a pencil is not a school issue that is a parenting issue. If a parent is unable to ensure their child keeps the most basic skills then there is something wrong

Whether you call it something wrong or not it tens of thousands of families in England are like this. And holding a pencil is not the main issue there either.

Your child is in state school and you never saw kids like that? Really?

So what should we do with them? Throw these kids under the bus completely because just “something is wrong” or maybe their parents are too disadvantaged or just busy surviving to home educate them?

These are not just vulnerable kids either and not even free school meals kids.

My DC go to independent schools and I agree that they can do more. One of the schools arranged testing at the beginning of term and after half term for everyone. They had tests they could use if they were concerned but not fitting the nhs rules. That was the school which had a major outbreak and around a third of my DC’s year group had a positive test and all but one year group went into isolation at the end of term.m