AIBU to stand up for children and parents...

[alwaysraining123]

... and say that closing schools is not an option. Some observations.

(1) millions of children will suffer poorer mental health, educational deficits and be at risk of physical harm.
(2) if schools close now the government will struggle to get them back open.
(3) the unions are playing a highly political game preying shamelessly on people’s fears.
(4) online learning is of no use for most of the primary school years. Parents basically need to be available all day to support children.
(5) more parents are going to find themselves unable to work causing more financial hardship. This won’t affect your middle class sahps or people who can work from home as much- there are people who actually have to go out of their house to earn a living.
(6) if you’re parent and you’re worried you can keep your child at home.
(7) educational transmission of the virus is low and infection control standards can be escalated where needed.

Whatever is done we need to place maintaining educational provision for children at the heart of it. We need to make it work...there’s no other option.

They will close anyway.

Planned firebreak versus emergency fire
Controlled V chaotic
Get it under control V massive covid spike coming your way

3) the unions are playing a highly political game preying shamelessly on people’s fears.

Yes and it's everywhere, not just from teachers or their unions. It's political activism for political point scoring, that has nothing to with schools I expect

YANBU

And that could have been a week off for a holiday. A holiday that provides a different kind of education and allows parents to spend time with the kids that they are now apparently not talking responsibility for... okay then.

@rookiemere

Have you seen the latest numbers ? I firmly believe going back in the Autumn term was the right thing to do, but right now I don't think there are a lot of options except online learning for a period. I agree it's rubbish and dreadful for parents, pupils and teachers alike, but you can't seriously think schools should be open when 50,000+ people per day are getting infected.

Agree completely

@saraclara this is not fact as they never tested kids so will never know!!

My Teacher friends love their jobs and the children they teach. They are not so keen on the Govt and the COVID they had over Christmas that they than passed on to their dh and very young dc.
I have really mixed feelings about this tbh .
Dd1 year 12 needs to be in school for her exams unless they cancel her January exams. COVID has been an issue in her school and she has self isolated twice. She would be absolutely fine learning Online. I would prefer video lessons but not all staff do these and fair enough that is their choice.
Dd2 is no longer in regular school due to MH issues. She has missed a whole year and is year 10 and tbh I am sick and tired of hearing that kids need to be in school for MH etc etc and my poor baby can't missed more school or their lives will be ruined.
School and CAMHS buggered up her MH more. This was an issue before COVID but of course it hasn't helped.
Dd3 will be fine at home or in school mental health wise.
However I think their mental health would be screwed up more if they get COVID and possibly infect their ECV father or borderline CV mother.
So I balance YABU op

@bookworm14 can you show me a post where teachers resent the pupils

[quote sherrystrull]@bookworm14

I honestly think the majority of teachers on MN do care hugely for their children. I just think after months and months of being told we're lazy and to stop whining people are at their end of their tether. I know I feel like that.

I'm tired of trying to tell people I care and am working hard and doing my damnedest for the kids.

But doing my best for the kids means my own children as well. Keeping everyone safe. I realise that safer schools are open schools. [/quote]
I was responding to a specific post stating that parents wanting their kids to be in school were ‘palming them off’. I find this breathtakingly offensive. I know the vast majority of teachers care deeply about their pupils, but I will not put up with being treated like some sort of lazy deviant for believing my child is better off in school.

Everyone believes children are better in school.

Unfortunately the virus isn't paying attention.

(1) millions of children will suffer poorer mental health, educational deficits and be at risk of physical harm. Whilst I do not douby this may ne the case for some children, I would like to see your evidence for millions of children suffering

(2) if schools close now the government will struggle to get them back open. Why?
(3) the unions are playing a highly political game preying shamelessly on people’s fears. No, teachers and school leaders have had to put up with a ridiculous amount of shit from the DfE in an attempt to keep things going for their pupils but enough is enough and it's time the grown ups made some decisions as the goverment clearly can't.
(4) online learning is of no use for most of the primary school years. Parents basically need to be available all day to support children. No one is suggesting this is ideal but it is good to remember formal education does not exist before age 7 in many countries, and whilst it may be an inconvenience for for some parents most children will not "fall behind"
(5) more parents are going to find themselves unable to work causing more financial hardship. This won’t affect your middle class sahps or people who can work from home as much- there are people who actually have to go out of their house to earn a living. Then the government needs to step up and make provision for them
(6) if you’re parent and you’re worried you can keep your child at home. Nope, not if you don't want to be prosecuted
(7) educational transmission of the virus is low and infection control standards can be escalated where needed. My son caught Covid at school before Christmas. As did 47 of the the other boys in his year of 150 and 29 of his teachers. I wouldn't call that a low rate of transmission, would you?

[quote Remmy123]@saraclara this is not fact as they never tested kids so will never know!![/quote]
There are many research studies that are testing kids. I'm involved in one myself.

The information I linked to has come from studies which are doing random testing on all age groups, symptomatic or not, specifically to find out if there are people with the virus who don't know they have (or have had) it.

As a participant in one such study I've been both tested for the virus and for antibodies. And I know that the researchers are also testing whole households to see what's happening within them and within the different age groups.

So many of the ‘teachers’ on MN seem to hate and resent both the job and the children they teach. Sad really.

Yeah ok

Most people who hate their jobs don’t leave because they have no other options eg they have no qualifications or experience in different sectors. But teachers have degrees so can easily just go and find a different job. So what reason would teachers stay in a job they hate and resent it as well as the children - they would become ill in very little time if this was the case.

You may hear teachers moaning about how they don’t like the long hours, the increasing workload etc but that is very different to hating and resenting the job and children

You wouldn’t become a dog trainer if you hated dogs so why do you think teachers hate children use your brain.

I'm not a teacher but have worked with teachers for the last few months. As a profession I have not met such dedicated, kind and caring people. None of the teachers I e worked with want schools to close - just made safer for them, the children they teach and the families those children go home to.

Whatever the govt spin says, children are spreading this virus. They are inadvertently putting their teachers, parents, grandparents and rest of their com,unity at risk. It is particularly the case now with this new variant.

The truth is we don't know how we are going to react to this infection - some clinically vulnerable people have had a mild disease with few symptoms and a full recovery, whilst fit, healthy and young people have been knocked out completely and continue to suffer for a long time after.

We cannot take the risk of keeping schools open at this time. We are approaching the second peak and this new variant is more easily transmitted from person to person. The longer this goes on and the more the govt refuses to act decisively, The more deaths there will be. There will be more businesses plunged into bankruptcy. There will be more people unemployed and more families pushed onto the breadline.

Everyone believes children are better in school.

Unfortunately the virus isn't paying attention.

Exactly this!!

Most teachers are parents too and we want our kids to go to school just as much as every other non-teaching parent but the facts are that a virus that spreads person to person has to result in closures of certain places until it’s back under control.

Everything that could be done to stop schools closing has been tried and hasn’t worked.

@toocold54

So many of the ‘teachers’ on MN seem to hate and resent both the job and the children they teach. Sad really.

Yeah ok

Most people who hate their jobs don’t leave because they have no other options eg they have no qualifications or experience in different sectors. But teachers have degrees so can easily just go and find a different job. So what reason would teachers stay in a job they hate and resent it as well as the children - they would become ill in very little time if this was the case.

You may hear teachers moaning about how they don’t like the long hours, the increasing workload etc but that is very different to hating and resenting the job and children

You wouldn’t become a dog trainer if you hated dogs so why do you think teachers hate children use your brain.

Again, I was responding to a specific post which accused parents of ‘palming off’ their kids’ education onto schools.

educational transmission of the virus is low and infection control standards can be escalated where needed

How do you explain the increase in the rate of infection in young people since September?

Infection control is literally what the NEU are asking for- they're basically asking for mask wearing and social distancing of a metre.

It's because there is inadequate infection control in schools, we have hit this point.

@bookworm14 I understand you were responding to a specific post.

But you have responded to an emotive comment with an equally offensive one. That's why I responded to you.

I believe my children are much better off in school too. Show me teachers and parents of school children who don't?
Of course we want the best for our children.

Flax I was dismayed to see Owen Jones jumping on this bandwagon.
Bit of a death knell, undermines everything when one starts to see socialist worker crap getting into this.

They only want the destruction of the evil tories even if a destabilised gov would cut the throat of the entire country...

Tiresome, teenager style thought processes.

However, the facts remain, children can survive in the main away from a classroom for about 4 to 8 weeks.

Many children actually thrived in lock down (taught) and did really well, the bbc ran article on this and I have two dc, one sightly suffered another positively thrived at home!

Many of our students also thrived at home and where I have work we have a high proportion of vulnerable students, sen etc.
It's not as black and white as..

All children need school.. At all!!

On line working can work exceptionally well.

This is it, they worst point in the whole pandemic, we are in the thick of it.. We are going to loose thousands of lives in the coming months, there will be no catch up, no back to normal for the people that die.

This is it, we must All pull together and do our best!
It's literally a few weeks.... By march.. The vaccine will kick in, the weather means more outside stuff... Everything will ease...

I think that the testing being set up in secondary schools should be used for primary children, it's far from perfect, but as a test before going back it will pick up some asymptomatic cases and reassure teachers and parents a little.

Oh for goodness sake. We're not here to reassure people! Giving false reassurance is dangerous! We're here to find out if people have Covid and stop it spreading!!!

I'm a teacher and I'm devastated not to be back in front of my class on Tuesday. If it was just me I would probably choose to ignore the instruction but at the moment I'm not convinced that it is safe for me, for my colleagues or for the children to be in school. So regretfully i will be letting my HT know tomorrow that I will not return. Teachers (none that I know anyway) don't take this step without a great deal of soul searching. I understand that it makes life difficult for parents but really, somebody needs to do something now.

Yanbu op.

Many of us think the same.

Mumsnet is an echo chamber of the unions. The unions have ho didn't even want the reception and year one's back in June when cases were 509 a day. Wankers.

But teachers have degrees so can easily just go and find a different job

Irrelevant to the discussion but a degree does not = easy to find a new job by any stretch.

Totally agree OP. I will not forgive the unions and teachers if they force primary schools to close again.

You do know that teachers have no say whatsoever in whether schools close, right? And I'm sure they'll be devastated if you don't forgive them.

[quote sherrystrull]@bookworm14 I understand you were responding to a specific post.

But you have responded to an emotive comment with an equally offensive one. That's why I responded to you.

I believe my children are much better off in school too. Show me teachers and parents of school children who don't?
Of course we want the best for our children. [/quote]
Yes, I overreacted, but in the same way that teachers on here are fed up with being attacked (and I am genuinely sorry I contributed to that), parents are fed up with being accused of not wanting to look after their own kids, of not taking responsibility for their education, of being ‘snowflakes’ for not being able to perform the completely impossible task of working and home educating at the same time. Not to mention those who will lose or have to give up their jobs if their kids can’t go to school. The first school closures nearly broke a lot of people and tempers are understandably fraying.

Totally agree OP. I will not forgive the unions and teachers if they force primary schools to close again.

What a terrible threat. I'm sure that will make them think twice about insisting on safe conditions during an out of control pandemic.