AIBU to stand up for children and parents...

[alwaysraining123]

... and say that closing schools is not an option. Some observations.

(1) millions of children will suffer poorer mental health, educational deficits and be at risk of physical harm.
(2) if schools close now the government will struggle to get them back open.
(3) the unions are playing a highly political game preying shamelessly on people’s fears.
(4) online learning is of no use for most of the primary school years. Parents basically need to be available all day to support children.
(5) more parents are going to find themselves unable to work causing more financial hardship. This won’t affect your middle class sahps or people who can work from home as much- there are people who actually have to go out of their house to earn a living.
(6) if you’re parent and you’re worried you can keep your child at home.
(7) educational transmission of the virus is low and infection control standards can be escalated where needed.

Whatever is done we need to place maintaining educational provision for children at the heart of it. We need to make it work...there’s no other option.

If you only have vulnerable and keyworker children in school then risks from external transmission fall and there is more space to follow guidelines. As my post says, let me remove my children without a fine (and subject to their continuing to produce the work set). Then the risk falls for those left.

I agree and hope that those shouting for schools to close are the loud minority while the majority of parents who want to send their kids in are keeping quiet.

I'm sure this is the case. If views on mumsnet were representative of the majority view then we'd have a labour government and be in the EU. All the posts in my class WhatsApp are about how we all hope the school stays open and will be sending our children in.

[quote BelleSausage]@Biscuitsareessential

I agree. That’s the system that we need. But I assume the OP would find this unacceptable because school would be ‘closed’ to some children. There appears to be no contingencies or flexibility in her ‘plans’.[/quote]
For that school it worked ok but they are in a fairly MC area with good engagement with Homelearning during isolation (90% ish) and most have the home environment conducive for Homelearning unfortunately that isn’t the situation for many so I’m not sure it would work everywhere.

For goodness sake. School staff are thinking about the children and parents. They're thinking of their own children as well.

No teacher I know wants to close, we want to open in a safe way. The government have caused this by providing no funding and offering no support to schools.

All those blaming schools should realise that school staff have worked so so hard in the Autumn term, covering for absent staff, dealing with worried children, cleaning constantly, being in freezing cold classrooms, having no breaks etc.

Instead of going on about lazy teachers who are desperate to close schools and sit at home, please remember that we care for the children in our care and our communities and want to open.

We don't however feel we should be given no money, no PPE, no support in keeping open and then blamed when cases inevitably occur.

Direct your anger at the government and support the school. If we can get numbers down then we can open safely for everyone.

That’s not true, and neither do teachers. They are in a room with 30 of the same people every day. A room that can be ventilated. Teachers can wear PPE. Supermarket staff interact with many many more people and let’s face it, even if they are very careful themselves they cannot control the many people they come into contact with who are not.

The proof will be in the figures. If the figures drop dramatically while the schools are closed then this will give a better indication as to how much difference closing them makes.

There is currently very little evidence of children dying, statistically most people who die are still in the over 80 camp and/or do have underlying health conditions, however more healthy people are developing longer term complications, and this is what we need to focus on.

As for vaccinating teachers, there are plenty of other professions who come into far more contact with people than teachers, retail workers for instance who have thousands and thousands of people through the shop on a daily basis. It could be said that they are far more important than teachers because without retail we literally cannot survive. Added to which the vaccination schedule is based on the people who are more likely to use up resources, so e.g. an 80 year old or someone with vulnerabilities is more likely to end up in hospital and take up resources than a teacher. Also, the 80 year old is more likely to be in contact with other 80 year olds, who again are more likely to end up in hospital than the majority of teachers or children.

If people think teachers need to be vaccinated first they need to question what is more important, the impact on services such as the NHS? Or the impact on education?

YANBU

I disagree with points 6 and 7. Any absences will be unauthorised. In the last fortnight or so of the last term, there was a huge spike in COVID cases and/or quarantines in my local schools.

I do agree that full school closures would cause hardship and/or difficulties for various reasons. However, there is now a light at the end of the tunnel - we have a vaccine available. A little more patience (and partial closures) could be the best option. With hindsight, I feel the main "mistake" during the first lockdown was not including all EYFS/KS1 in eligibility criteria to attend schools. Balancing risk against benefit, the youngest students need to be in school the most. (Unless they already homeschool.)

I agree OP, but with proviso, teachers can be top of vaccinations and to be issued with the same face masks and goggles that NHS staff use or a visor similar to a hairdresser/shopworker.

I work in a school and on the run up to the Christmas holidays kids and teachers were dropping like flies and bubbles popping right left and centre. Some classes would return, be back for a few days then another child or member of staff would test positive and then class would have to isolate. It wasn’t just our school either, it was pretty much every school in our area, we are over 100 miles away from London and SE. If we return I dread to think what will happen.

Awww bless OP you’ll have to look after your own kids won’t you. 🤭

As a non parent I have very little concern with this however what I will say is that I know of plenty of anxious parents who are fearful of their kids being infected and getting ill or bringing it into the home. Kids are one of the vectors here so something needs to be done.

Schools must be closed. Of course some kids will fall behind but that’s life and this is a pandemic so difficult decisions must be made.

The greater good and the needs of the many.

I emailed my MP at the start of November suggesting they put better safety measure in place (masks for all, rota learning, longer holidays) to minimise this mess.
Snails work faster than this shit show of a government.

@Je551ca not all classrooms can be ventilated and currently teachers are actively discouraged by the Government to wear PPE in the classroom.

@Flapjak

I agree OP, but with proviso, teachers can be top of vaccinations and to be issued with the same face masks and goggles that NHS staff use or a visor similar to a hairdresser/shopworker.

But what about many of the young female teachers who are extremely low risk why should they come above far older members of the general public? I agree older/high risk teachers should be prioritised but surely not a blanket prioritisation of all teachers?

You are very then but that is not always the case. And perhaps your delivery drivers are respectful but have you been to the warehouses where your shopping is picked and packed. Have you witnessed a delivery van being cleaned between drivers. Before Christmas shops were ridiculously busy where I live and we aren’t seeing behind the scenes. Class rooms can be ventilated and teachers can wear PPE as other professions must.

@Je551ca
The comments suggesting teachers shouldn’t have to risk their lives are fair but I am sure the people saying it are happy to accept deliveries from drivers, use the NHS, allow people to work in crowded essential shops, have the police breaking up gatherings, have plumbers fixing their boiler... anyone who works is at risk.

All of the examples you listed are allowed to wear masks - staff in most primaries have been told not to.

I'm not sure people would be as happy to use those services with zero protection.

The virus is spreading too fast; it's not safe right now. We are in a very different place to early December - the schools opening will cause a massive spread of the virus given the new strain in a way we weren't seeing until now. I want my kids back in school and nursery, but I don't want to see people dying needlessly because we overwhelmed the hospitals. Things need to cool off and the R rate needs to drop.

It’s a personal choice surely. You can refuse not to work but you can’t refuse to work without PPE?

@Je551ca

That’s not true, and neither do teachers. They are in a room with 30 of the same people every day. A room that can be ventilated. Teachers can wear PPE. Supermarket staff interact with many many more people and let’s face it, even if they are very careful themselves they cannot control the many people they come into contact with who are not.

Many teachers are with 5-6 different sets of 30 students a day. Those students aren't masked. Neither is the teacher. Many of those rooms cannot be ventilated and they are very small. Those students are not moving past their teachers. They are sitting there shoulder to shoulder and the amount of air they are sharing is massively smaller than in a supermarket (and most supermarkets have airflow/airconditioning.

I would far rather be working in a supermarket than a classroom. And if my kids weren't already adults I'd be keeping them off school at this point. Because the proximity of their classmates would run the risk of my kids bringing Covid home.

Also you know that kids are not exactly careful, right?

I'm a teacher over 50 with 3 school aged children myself.

I'd prefer not to risk catching covid from other people's children, thanks, especially when I see their families out and about mingling and breaking all the rules regularly. My favourite were a couple of parents who didn't quarantine as required after travelling internationally for work last term. But I'm expected to keep their little darlings safe when they don't give two shits about my own health.

No thanks ... I'd honestly rather be furloughed for the next few weeks or work via laptop.

How about the government providing the planning and resources to open schools in a safe and sustainable way. Unfortunately they’ve let things get out of control due to doing nothing to mitigate the risk in schools now resulting in schools being unsafe. I agree our children need an education but school staff, children and their families deserve the same protection as all other areas of society. It’s not a case of a choice between schools being open with no protection or being closed. There is a middle ground that would allow schools to be open but staff and students to have far more adequate protection. Unfortunately the government have never been interested in protecting school staff or children and schools were opened in an unsustainable way and now the numbers are out of control and there isn’t a safe way to keep schools open. The government were warned time and time again that this would happen. It’s not teachers and schools letting you down it’s the government. Staff should not be expected to work with no PPE or social distancing. Staff have lost their lives and so have family members of school children. Schools must be allowed to operate safely.

That came out wrong. If you have the right to refuse work, you should also have the right to insist on wearing PPE

I think we have a much bigger problem in this country.
If children’s mental health will decline with 2 weeks off school we have a serious issue.

@Biscuitsareessential

No, home learning does not work everywhere. But that is an issue that needs a solution. Just leaving all schools open until they get shut by staff shortages isn’t a plan, it’s very much no plan whatsoever.

I find it disgraceful that the government don’t have any contingencies. They are just letting the schooling system slowly collapse under the weight of infections. What an unnecessary mess!

So that is something that can change without closing schools. There is no need for children to be moving between rooms and teachers, especially in primary schools. My sons school has one teacher per class, they eat in the class room, stagger play time, and have no contact with anyone outside of their bubble.