Headteacher unions begin legal proceedings against DfE

[Makingnumber2]

www.naht.org.uk/news-and-opinion/news/leadership-news/update-regarding-start-of-term-sent-to-members-on-2-jan-2021/?fbclid=IwAR3WFugSo-KsSToWAvbteMs8HspeXZTMBd9VaiOlAVxOeL0FM1wDRzqbviA

NAHT and ASCL start legal proceedings against DfE

@Abraxan

Flax meadow

So you agree then that, like some supermarkets are different [and I said, the ones I've used since March all have screens (plus masks as well in some)maroons the tills and are in open plan style large buildings with restricted numbers, albeit a lot] then surely schools are often very different too.

And no it's not 'all about me' obviously. But the main risk, we are told, is from being with the same people for a length of time - 15 minutes in close contact, without a barrier. The supermarkets I use do not have that scenario. There are barriers in the way of screens, plus masks for some, and individual customers are unlikely to be stood within 2m of the worker for longer than a few minutes, let alone 15 minutes. Maybe some are different and have the same customer in close contact with no barrier for an hour at a time.

This isn’t quite the case as aerosols from infected people stay in the air and screens and masks don’t protect. Good ventilation is the key, whether that be in a supermarket or a school. A poorly ventilated supermarket is a risk because of the number of people in and out.

Im confused as I have read a couple of teachers on here say I will be working but at home? Not on school with key worker and vunerable

It depends on the school set up and how many key worker/vulnerable children are in.

In lockdown 1 all but 4 of our teaching staff were full time in school as we have a high number of key worker/vulnerable children. The 4 staff not in school were wfh as clinically vulnerable or lived with someone who was cev. The 4 at home did most of the remote learning but were supported by a number of staff in school who did pt in classes and other producing remote learning.

In some schools, mainly secondary ime, they are managing virtual,live lessons for those at home whilst teaching those in school at the same time.

In some schools there are far fewer key worker/vulnerable therefore more staff are wfh and teaching from home, either remote live lessons or providing materials and feedback for pupils to complete.

And yes, I agree, Nursery and pre schools have very similar issues to infant school aged classes, especially regarding social distancing,

@Hercwasonasnowball apologies tagged wrong person so sorry makes no sense have asked for it to be removed

I namechanged @donewithitalltodayandxmas

I'd have thought teachers would have been hot on this stuff? Clearly not. Disappointing really

Ahh. Ok. You’re clearly just attacking teachers for anything they say or do. That’s far more disappointing. This is the best you have to do with your time? At least I can justify this time suck as supporting my profession and helping non-teachers see the reality of schools at the moment.

What is the point of what you’re doing? Actually don’t answer that. I don’t think I want to know in case it’s some kind of sex thing

[quote donewithitalltodayandxmas]@abraxan individuals can be stood less than with no masks then risk is same and less time is needed
Supermarkets are not round here as strict as they were at first and i avoid as much as possible
The 15 mins is 2 m its less if less than 1 m
Not saying schools should go back yet as I think we should of given a couple weeks shutdown across the board to get numbers down and then go back with masks as option for schools to decide as not all teachers want masks [/quote]
To be fair I actually feel for any supermarket and retail staff too working in these conditions, and if any don't have social distancing, masks and/or screens then I would fully support their right to take action to enable them to get them.

All workers should be entitled to basic protection from covid.
I support all workers in their action to ensure they can get that,

Ha ha!

Unless you are the only person in the country doing your job, or one of very few, then simply naming a rough idea of your job is hardly a safeguarding or internet safety issue.

Maybe if you then add lots of detail across more than one post people could build a picture, yes. But simply stating that 'I work in a supermarket, I am an ICU doctor, I work as a hotel receptionist, I am a teacher, etc' is really not identifying in almost all cases,

[quote donewithitalltodayandxmas]@SansaSnark supermarket workers etc don't have the same rights and poilce , nhs can't go on a mass walkout as its not ethical for one
Personally I think teachers unions have been slow , but its not easy for other professions to do
There will also be individuals who will be working in unsafe environments who can't leave a job as they need to feed their families its not just black and white[/quote]
I know police have limited rights- FWIW I don't agree with this.

Supermarket workers absolutely could walk out in this way, but most of them aren't unionised. That's a choice the workers make, but then they can't complain that they don't get the support of being in a union.

I think any individual in a union could use the NEU template letter, adapted to their situation, to avoid unsafe working conditions.

NHS staff, I do agree it's super tricky, but I would support any action they take, now or later, to highlight how terribly they've been treated during the pandemic. I supported the junior doctor strike, too.

I know it's tough- I'm still conflicted about what the NEU are asking.

But teachers made a choice to hang on to our unions, we pay into them, we support them. If other professions haven't done that, they can't really complain about not getting the benefits of it, can they?

@Abraxan

One vocal teacher on here doesn't like live lessons either

To be fair, I also don't think live lessons are the answer in many situations. Live lessons can make life much harder for working parents, especially those who have more than one child and are trying to balance work from home and remote learning. We considered it but it was ruled out for many reasons. Basically they don't suit the needs of our catchment as a whole.

Just because we don't provide live remote lessons doesn't mean we don't provide an effective and comprehensive remote learning package however.

Fortunately the parents at the primary school I teach at don't want live lessons.

Our actual real life school parents are very very different to those vocal ones in mumsnet.

I was impressed by the live lessons my kids received post September when their bubbles broke. Very engaging and restored my faith in the school's capabilities.

Why would live lessons be and idea?

@abraxan its why we should currently be having a stricter lockdown in my opinion similar to march to protect as many as possible
I know lovkdowns are shit and for working parents its hard etc etc but 50000 a day is huge and it has to be got under control and I totally don't blame teachers bu unfortunately other industries don't have option , I had expected unions to of stepped in before now
My ds school has been amazing and we have had low cases but we were in a low area but that was beginning to change , my ds does a sport outside that can continue but we have decided to not to this at least for next few weeks until we see how things pan out
It really should not be is against them but at the same time I think expectations have to be realistic

*a bad idea

Because, Pusheen not every parent has enough devices to plug their children into for a full day.

Or decent enough wifi.

beggars belief that Flaxmeadow still doesn't know the definition of a strike.

noblegiraffe
It's deliberate goading. I've reported it but would also suggest ignoring them

FYI

Strike
noun
1.
a refusal to work organized by a body of employees as a form of protest, typically in an attempt to gain a concession or concessions from their employer.
"dockers voted for an all-out strike"
Similar:
walkout industrial action

@SansaSnark don't think you get the option in many jobs
Like i have posted I am surprised its taken the unions this long tbh and I support teachers with numbers as they are
I have a yr 11 ds so school closures are huge as he is a rubbish home learner but worst case gcse can be taken again and I would rather he and others around him are safe

@PusheenLove

Many families only have one device and more than one child. Live lessons then become a choice between the children as to which child gets the live lesson and which doesn't.
In rural area broadband speeds aren't good enough to support live lessons.
Families relying on a data connection rather than broadband don't have enough data to stay online for the whole lesson.

@noblegiraffe

Because, Pusheen not every parent has enough devices to plug their children into for a full day.

Or decent enough wifi.

The Gov were supposed to be providing that kit

You've been deleted once already, Flax, I suggest you knock it on the head now.

The Gov were supposed to be providing that kit

Key word there is supposed.

(spoiler alert, they didn't)

PusheenLove
Why would live lessons be a bad idea?

Missing out the safeguarding issues.

one of the main problems is number of computers/laptop vs number of users in the home.

We have many pupils where there are 2 - 3 school aged children/teenagers + parent/s needing to use the systems at the same time.

Many households do not have the correct computer to used ratio and when it comes down to it the breadwinner/worker will always be the one to use the computer during the day.

@PusheenLove

*a bad idea

Live lessons worked well for us when bubbles broke last term. We're a bit more concerned about them next week as we know so many children share devices with siblings, who will now also be off school. We're working at staggering live lessons and doing other lessons recorded, but it's not going to work well for everyone and we will need to adapt as we go.

@noblegiraffe i think live lessons depend on age of child. My ds yr 11 would be better with live lesson ( they can also be recorded) i can see why not so easy for a 6 year old let alone a group via zoom , I would guess that could get out of control

My ds school has supplied tech so maybe this varies from school to school a couple of schools round here you have to purchase a chromebook when you start

The EEF research has concluded that there is no measurable difference in progress between live and non live (ie recorded) lessons.