Headteacher unions begin legal proceedings against DfE

[Makingnumber2]

www.naht.org.uk/news-and-opinion/news/leadership-news/update-regarding-start-of-term-sent-to-members-on-2-jan-2021/?fbclid=IwAR3WFugSo-KsSToWAvbteMs8HspeXZTMBd9VaiOlAVxOeL0FM1wDRzqbviA

NAHT and ASCL start legal proceedings against DfE

@BungleandGeorge

You’re never going to have everybody on board, some people believe we should just let the virus do it’s thing, some believe it doesn’t even exist. In my opinion the unions should continue to press for the release of the SAGE report. If the government are not following the advice of their own scientific advisors surely most people see the problem with that?

This in spades

[quote donewithitalltodayandxmas]@RigaBalsam november wasn't a proper lockdown
Lockdowns that work are like march ones
Currently my local tesco is like a day out attraction [/quote]
That was partly my point.

The nhs had very little ppe at the beginning and I know someone who is a nurse that goes in and out houses , there ppe is a mask and plastic apron same as many carers and the people they visiting many can not wear masks or social distance , so we could say yes lets introduce masks to bring in line with everyone else , but that isn't all thats wanted

Personally i can't see why masks can't of been allowed if it would make people feel safer especially in secondary school.
My dcs are teenagers and have no issues wearing masks

Nurses are being protected by being vaccinated.

Why is it ok that teachers and schools have a less secure and safe working environment than others?

They are not less safe and by repeating it they gain less sympathy

To be able to have demands met, they first must have public sympathy. The miners in the 1980s for example had a lot of public sympathy because the public could see that Englands industrial districts had and would suffer great hardship. But teachers are seen, by the public, as a vital service, as key workers. If they took industrial action, in a massive pandemic crisis, they would have no support. Infact im pretty sure many people would turn against them. Unlike the miners, who btw would never have gone on strike in such a crisis, teachers unions have no bargaining power in this situation

@Flaxmeadow

Why is it ok that teachers and schools have a less secure and safe working environment than others?

They are not less safe and by repeating it they gain less sympathy

To be able to have demands met, they first must have public sympathy. The miners in the 1980s for example had a lot of public sympathy because the public could see that Englands industrial districts had and would suffer great hardship. But teachers are seen, by the public, as a vital service, as key workers. If they took industrial action, in a massive pandemic crisis, they would have no support. Infact im pretty sure many people would turn against them. Unlike the miners, who btw would never have gone on strike in such a crisis, teachers unions have no bargaining power in this situation

They're not going on strike.

They're being encouraged to refuse to work in unsafe conditions.

And why wouldn't the country support them? Tier 4 with schools fully open hasn't worked to curtail the virus. I'd hope that most people in the country would rather not have the NHS overwhelmed by continuing to have things open that are contributing to spread.

It means working from home providing remote education instead of in an unsafe school.

Strike action is withdrawal of labour.

So a strike. Industrial action by withdrawing services and going against the Gov't

There is no such thing as remote learning and how could that possibly work for primary?

Believe me. Teachers are on a hiding to nothing with this.

Case numbers by specimen date:

By specimen date
29-12-2020 74,510

Today: 57,725

What the hell is wrong with people who want schools to be open as if there was not a pandemic going on? Do you really hate all teachers and kids that much?

@2020out slowly many have not had a vaccine and have not had one since march , that is a stupid argument , they are also face to face with covid patients daily they cannot maintain any distance whilst incubating a patient or providing life saving care- that is such a poor example

@Flaxmeadow

It means working from home providing remote education instead of in an unsafe school.

Strike action is withdrawal of labour.

So a strike. Industrial action by withdrawing services and going against the Gov't

There is no such thing as remote learning and how could that possibly work for primary?

Believe me. Teachers are on a hiding to nothing with this.

Says who? I think you’ll find that it will set a precedent. Legal action against an acting Government is history in the making.

They're not going on strike.

They're being encouraged to refuse to work in unsafe conditions.

Which is a strike.

And why wouldn't the country support them? Tier 4 with schools fully open hasn't worked to curtail the virus. I'd hope that most people in the country would rather not have the NHS overwhelmed by continuing to have things open that are contributing to spread.

The country wouldn't support it because teachers are in no more an unsafe situation than NHS or food retail staff. It's as simple as that

@Flaxmeadow

They're not going on strike.

They're being encouraged to refuse to work in unsafe conditions.

Which is a strike.

And why wouldn't the country support them? Tier 4 with schools fully open hasn't worked to curtail the virus. I'd hope that most people in the country would rather not have the NHS overwhelmed by continuing to have things open that are contributing to spread.

The country wouldn't support it because teachers are in no more an unsafe situation than NHS or food retail staff. It's as simple as that

oh ffs. Stike= NO WORK

refuse to work in unsafe conditions=work from home and provide online lessons

Are you really this thick or you just don't WANT to get it?

'Seriously you are the type of person who will actually make me think - did it I don’t want to teach your child. But I will do because I love me job ...'

So because you disagee with an opinion of an adult then you would feel negatively towards teaching a child? Thankfullt not the way most NHS staff feel when dealing with challenging patients and families.

I think its shocking that you are supporting the unions for a walkout.

[quote donewithitalltodayandxmas]@2020out slowly many have not had a vaccine and have not had one since march , that is a stupid argument , they are also face to face with covid patients daily they cannot maintain any distance whilst incubating a patient or providing life saving care- that is such a poor example[/quote]
No, but they're rightly being prioritised for vaccines for exactly the reasons you state. They've not been vaccinated since March because the vaccine was only approved in December.

Just in case you think I'm trying to argue otherwise - most school staff are at less risk than most nurses (though in some SEND schools school staff do many of the same tasks)

It's not a fucking strike, flax

For it to be strike action there needs to be a ballot. There's no ballot.

There's no withdrawal of labour, merely a refusal to enter an unsafe building.

Teachers will provide remote education.

The country wouldn't support it because teachers are in no more an unsafe situation than NHS or food retail staff.

Please provide data to support this.

The unions have been asking the government for months to no avail. Which is weird if it exists.

@Flaxmeadow

It means working from home providing remote education instead of in an unsafe school.

Strike action is withdrawal of labour.

So a strike. Industrial action by withdrawing services and going against the Gov't

There is no such thing as remote learning and how could that possibly work for primary?

Believe me. Teachers are on a hiding to nothing with this.

I've thought you are Gavla numerous times the past few months.

The more you contribute the more I think you are

@Flaxmeadow

They're not going on strike.

They're being encouraged to refuse to work in unsafe conditions.

Which is a strike.

And why wouldn't the country support them? Tier 4 with schools fully open hasn't worked to curtail the virus. I'd hope that most people in the country would rather not have the NHS overwhelmed by continuing to have things open that are contributing to spread.

The country wouldn't support it because teachers are in no more an unsafe situation than NHS or food retail staff. It's as simple as that

It's not a strike. A strike is a refusal to work.

I'm not going to change your mind, clearly. But you're repeatedly stating nonsense and it's pissing me off.

Says who? I think you’ll find that it will set a precedent. Legal action against an acting Government is history in the making.

So this is about politicising it to you? Setting a historical precedent for unions, scoring a political point and damn everything and everyone else. You would sacrifice our most vulnerable during the worst crisis since WW2, to make teacher trade union history. Do you have any idea how selfish, up it's own arse, and bonkers this sounds

Every single other worker in retail, healthcare, the lot wears masks.

Teachers have explicitly been told not to wear masks by DfE.

They are the only group of workers who are not allowed even basic protection.

Would a GP go to work without a mask? If not, why should a teacher? The teacher probably has a higher risk since you're not supposed to contact your GP at all if you have covid symptoms.

Anyway, if Baga is a GP I hope VERY MUCH I never get her as my doctor because any GP that is so willing to disregard the overwhelming scientific consensus on an issue because it's personally inconvenient to them is not a good doctor.

The scientific consensus on what minimising sars-cov-2 risk in schools looks like is overwhelming and complete - and it includes masks, social distancing, smaller class sizes and ventilation. Of which many schools have none. With one (masks) explicitly being disallowed by DfE and the others effectively being disallowed by providing no extra funding.

@Flaxmeadow

Says who? I think you’ll find that it will set a precedent. Legal action against an acting Government is history in the making.

So this is about politicising it to you? Setting a historical precedent for unions, scoring a political point and damn everything and everyone else. You would sacrifice our most vulnerable during the worst crisis since WW2, to make teacher trade union history. Do you have any idea how selfish, up it's own arse, and bonkers this sounds

It isn’t me who sounds bonkers.

It's not a strike. A strike is a refusal to work.

A refusal to work, withdraw labour, is the definition of a strike.

I'll tell you what will happen if teachers strike, there would be a situation where food retail would then say well why should we serve teachers. How would they like those eggs? Or lack of eggs as the case might be.

Cant they see where a strike would end up? Hownit would go down with minimum wage retail workers, who have never stopped working throughout

@Flaxmeadow

It's not a strike. A strike is a refusal to work.

A refusal to work, withdraw labour, is the definition of a strike.

I'll tell you what will happen if teachers strike, there would be a situation where food retail would then say well why should we serve teachers. How would they like those eggs? Or lack of eggs as the case might be.

Cant they see where a strike would end up? Hownit would go down with minimum wage retail workers, who have never stopped working throughout

This isn't how our society works.

And there is no strike action proposed by any of the English teaching unions.

@Flaxmeadow

It's not a strike. A strike is a refusal to work.

A refusal to work, withdraw labour, is the definition of a strike.

I'll tell you what will happen if teachers strike, there would be a situation where food retail would then say well why should we serve teachers. How would they like those eggs? Or lack of eggs as the case might be.

Cant they see where a strike would end up? Hownit would go down with minimum wage retail workers, who have never stopped working throughout

Who has refused to work?

You’re wrong and the fact you don’t understand what a strike is, and keep going on about it. It’s embarrassing now.

No-one has suggested a strike, you keep saying they have because you don’t understand what action has been suggested. That is evident.