Government now allowing mixing and matching of different vaccines

[Em777]

From the New York Times:

Amid a sputtering vaccine rollout and fears of a new and potentially more transmissible variant of the coronavirus, Britain has quietly updated its vaccination playbook to allow for a mix-and-match vaccine regimen. If a second dose of the vaccine a patient originally received isn’t available, or if the manufacturer of the first shot isn’t known, another vaccine may be substituted, health officials said.

The new guidance contradicts guidelines in the United States, where the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has noted that the authorized Covid-19 vaccines “are not interchangeable,” and that “the safety and efficacy of a mixed-product series have not been evaluated. Both doses of the series should be completed with the same product.”

Some scientists say Britain is gambling with its new guidance. “There are no data on this idea whatsoever,” said John Moore, a vaccine expert at Cornell University. Officials in Britain “seem to have abandoned science completely now and are just trying to guess their way out of a mess.”

www.nytimes.com/2021/01/01/health/coronavirus-vaccines-britain.html

This seems super risky to me.

This sounds downright dangerous to me. There’s been no testing on patients receiving mix and match vaccines. I’m not anti-vax but this would cause me to refuse the vaccine.

Well I won’t be having a 2nd dose if they can’t provide the same one, I’d refuse.
That’s ridiculous

Given the only 2 vaccines approved so far are completely different types of vaccine that work in completely different ways this is illogical. The only way in which this could make any sense was if the country was expecting the approval of and a large number of doses of the Sputnik vaccine in the extremely near future (but I don't think that the Sputnik vaccine has even submitted any data to UK regulators) as there is reason to believe that the Oxford and Sputnik vaccines could be reasonably interchangeable, or even that the slightly different formulation will give even stronger immunity if the doses are split between the Oxford and Sputnik vaccines.

Oh FFS.

They're already planning research into this. It's thought that using 2 different vaccines can lead to greater efficacy than 2 doses of a single one.
I wouldn't have any problems with this myself.

Do they have the proof this is happening ? Or is it maybe something we are looking at as no mention here thats what we are doing

Planning research
It's thought

Well that's water tight then! Who cares what the actual testing was? Time to second jab. Second jab same as first. The basis we approved it.

Yeah sod that! Let's just do whatever. Always a good message to give to the population about medical stuff.

@donewithitalltodayandxmas

Do they have the proof this is happening ? Or is it maybe something we are looking at as no mention here thats what we are doing

I’m not sure what document the NYT has seen but their quotes seem clear cut?:

The country has issued an emergency green light to two vaccines, developed by Pfizer and AstraZeneca. According to Britain’s new guidance, “every effort should be made” to complete a dosing regimen with the same shot first used. But when “the same vaccine is not available, or if the first product received is unknown, it is reasonable to offer one dose of the locally available product” the second time around.

“This option is preferred if the individual is likely to be at immediate high risk or is considered unlikely to attend again,” the recommendation said. Because both vaccines target the spike protein of the coronavirus, “it is likely the second dose will help to boost the response to the first dose.”

Following requests for comment, officials at Public Health England drew attention to the similarities between the Pfizer and AstraZeneca vaccines, and said that clinical trials testing mixed regimens were to start sometime this year.

I think it's obvious that the logistics to follow up within the prescribed timelines and with the same vaccine are not in place.

So this is not a surprise.

It's stupid though. We are taught to follow medicine instructions and vaccination schedules carefully. For good reason.

Government has just torn that up.

@Em777 Yes kind of read it as in emergency or they may be trialling that ( hope that is with willing participants though ) again next time we have an update why can't one of the journalists ask a question like this to witty ? Instead of the crap they ask as personally I don't want to halfs of different jabs , so wonder of we can ask what we are being given then refuse second one of different

Also referenced in the Guardian here (apparently the source is the NHS Green Book — the handbook on vaccination for NHS staff):

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/01/what-difference-will-the-astrazeneca-vaccine-make-in-the-uk

@NiceGerbil it won't be the goverments idea though it will be the scientists ? Which ones though who knows

If the vaccine isn’t available or you don’t know which was given ( although I’m not sure how that would be possible as it would be in patient notes) what would you like to happen? I can’t really see the logic of refusing any vaccine, you’d have no protection at all
then

@Em777 the guardians explanation makes me more comfortable it implies last resort as opposed to the norm
But when it comes time to have mine I will be asking which one and making sure the follow up one is also the same unless proven trials have been done by then

@BungleandGeorge

If the vaccine isn’t available or you don’t know which was given ( although I’m not sure how that would be possible as it would be in patient notes) what would you like to happen? I can’t really see the logic of refusing any vaccine, you’d have no protection at all then

Well the quote from the Guardian makes it sound like local availability on the day may easily dictate which vaccine you’re given, so this may become commonplace with the expected supply constraints:

“For individuals who started the schedule and who attend for vaccination at a site where the same vaccine is not available, or if the first product received is unknown, it is reasonable to offer one dose of the locally available product to complete the schedule.”

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/01/what-difference-will-the-astrazeneca-vaccine-make-in-the-uk

And we surely must know what we are given ? When I take my dog for his injections they write dow the vaccination and batch etc so I would hope the same is documented for humans
Although I recently had flu jab and that was like conveyor belt

Well glad I read this as will be making sure I get the same one

@donewithitalltodayandxmas

And we surely must know what we are given ? When I take my dog for his injections they write dow the vaccination and batch etc so I would hope the same is documented for humans Although I recently had flu jab and that was like conveyor belt

Yes, I’d hope to be told too.

Pfizer can't guarantee deliveries of their vaccine though. Do you boost with another vaccine or do you just give one dose?

People saying they’ll make sure to get the same one for the booster but it says this is only applicable if the other isn’t available. If it’s not available you can’t have it... I doubt there will be much discussion at mass vaccination sites vaccinating thousands each day. The choice will be have what’s available or have nothing. The question is over efficacy not safety

The question is over efficacy not safety

Can they guarantee there is no safety issues with mixing the vaccines though?
Surely there's been no research into that?

It just sounds like a mess. Is it any wonder that people are cautious about having the vaccine when this is what's happening.

@BungleandGeorge

If the vaccine isn’t available or you don’t know which was given ( although I’m not sure how that would be possible as it would be in patient notes) what would you like to happen? I can’t really see the logic of refusing any vaccine, you’d have no protection at all then

I think it gives an impression of being blasé about efficacy and safety, and frankly openness. In my opinion that’s what will have some people who were already doubtful starting to refuse altogether.

I’m not remotely anti vaccine, I volunteered for the trials and will have the vaccine when offered, but I am concerned that this sort of thing will lead to a decrease in trust over the vaccines.

@Em777

What is your agenda?

On another thread you said are not originally from the UK and criticized the UK government endlessly (the topic of the thread was about children).

More government bashing on this one.

I'm not trying to defend the government, but you come across as a very articulate political activist out to stir up trouble and your posts are increasingly uncomfortable to read TBH

I'd be happy to have two different vaccines. Both have been proven to be safe. The 'science' doesn't yet tell you which dosing will be the most effective for longer term protection. Using two different vaccines may cause your body to provide broader defences. The Sputnik vaccine was designed to have two different vectors. Given the current rates of infection the priority must be to get people vaccinated fast.

@donewithitalltodayandxmas

Well glad I read this as will be making sure I get the same one

I’ve just read it and thought what a shed load of absolute tosh!

I will have whatever is offered, as I trust the science behind the development of the vaccines.