Government now allowing mixing and matching of different vaccines

[Em777]

From the New York Times:

Amid a sputtering vaccine rollout and fears of a new and potentially more transmissible variant of the coronavirus, Britain has quietly updated its vaccination playbook to allow for a mix-and-match vaccine regimen. If a second dose of the vaccine a patient originally received isn’t available, or if the manufacturer of the first shot isn’t known, another vaccine may be substituted, health officials said.

The new guidance contradicts guidelines in the United States, where the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has noted that the authorized Covid-19 vaccines “are not interchangeable,” and that “the safety and efficacy of a mixed-product series have not been evaluated. Both doses of the series should be completed with the same product.”

Some scientists say Britain is gambling with its new guidance. “There are no data on this idea whatsoever,” said John Moore, a vaccine expert at Cornell University. Officials in Britain “seem to have abandoned science completely now and are just trying to guess their way out of a mess.”

www.nytimes.com/2021/01/01/health/coronavirus-vaccines-britain.html

This seems super risky to me.

If true, this is a massive U-turn. JVT was saying that vaccines should not be mixed across the 2 doses. Yet I can see that happening if people have had the Pfizer jab, had their second dose cancelled, and then it runs out as so many people are given one jab. So they will need to get the Oxford vaccine if they want more protection.

You could not make this up.

I'd be happy to have two different vaccines. Both have been proven to be safe

Yes, safe (as they can guarantee at this point) but not mixing two different vaccines!!

Honestly some people here appear to have no critical thought processes. This is your body, do you really want to take this sort of chance with it? Doing something that hasn't been trialed at all?? FFS

Honestly some people here appear to have no critical thought processes. This is your body, do you really want to take this sort of chance with it? Doing something that hasn't been trialed at all?? FFS

I completely agree, and this is what concerns me. I'd be interested to hear what the scientists behind the oxford and Pfizer vaccines think about this move..

This is batshit surely, they are both totally different technologies? Disappointed in how ridiculous we look abroad.

Seems reasonable to me. It happens with other vaccines.

The advice is always- complete the course with the same vaccine if at all possible. However, it’s safer to boost with a different vaccine, rather than miss that 2nd dose.

It’s crazy to think that someone might get Covid-because they only having one dose, BUT there is copious amounts of vaccine sitting in the local surgery fridge, which they can’t have because it’s the wrong ‘type’ of vaccine.

Interesting that people would rather not have a second dose, rather than have a different vaccine. It wouldn’t bother me.

[quote trulydelicious]@Em777

What is your agenda?

On another thread you said are not originally from the UK and criticized the UK government endlessly (the topic of the thread was about children).

More government bashing on this one.

I'm not trying to defend the government, but you come across as a very articulate political activist out to stir up trouble and your posts are increasingly uncomfortable to read TBH[/quote]
Do you ask everyone what their agenda is for posting anything, or is it only reserved for articulate people not born in the UK?

This is not government bashing. IT is a reasoned and reasonable discussion about the wisdom of using medications in a way that is not scientifically verified as safe. The government have said they are "following the science" but then appear to never follow it. This is another example of that. It is legitimate public debate.

There is far too little rational and informed debate around politics in this country. On any subject you could name. We should be encouraging it, not criticising people. And if you are uncomfortable with facts and informed debate, then stop reading them.

@Barksmum12

Interesting that people would rather not have a second dose, rather than have a different vaccine

Perhaps I would be inclined to do the same if I had taken the first dose already, not sure

Interesting the article is from the NY Times. Are they worried about potential loss of revenue for Pfizer? Just saying...

Seems reasonable to me. It happens with other vaccines.

These two vaccines are very different. One is an mRNA vaccine (that in itself is new!) and the other is a more traditional type. There have been no trials to test this, so why on Earth would I or anyone else be happy to be a guinea pig? Especially when up till now, medical experts have been saying no mixing?

It's a long time since I've been this livid about something.

There may be a combined Sputnik / Oxford one in the near future. However, the Russian regulator has advised pregnant women or women planning to get pregnant in the next three months not to have the vaccine and also various other contraindications, e.g. cancer (if you know you have it). But perhaps they are just super cautious. I also heard a rumour that you aren’t supposed to drink alcohol for a couple of months after the second dose but that might just be a ruse to get people to drink less for a while...

PS Sputnik and Oxford are similar tech whereas as the poster above me has said the Pfizer one is different.

As soon as it was announced that the gap between first and second was extended up to 12weeks we said in my house this would happen. It’s so obvious to see. No doubt this is something else the UK government will cock up .

If we are no longer following the research and assuming things then we should assume the vaccines stop covid being passed on and vaccinate working age people rather than care home residents and the elderly, they will be protected as people around them will be protected and get the economy going and life back to something that resembles normal.

There may be a combined Sputnik / Oxford one in the near future.

This is a more reasonable proposition as both are adenovirus vectored vaccines. Also, there will be trials!

@Moondust001

I'm just saying that I've witnessed the OP dishing out vitriol against the government for no reason and attepmting to subtly hijack threads

It looks like covert political activism to me and is worrying

I'm not implying any particular topic is not worthy of debate

These two vaccines are very different. One is an mRNA vaccine (that in itself is new!) and the other is a more traditional type. There have been no trials to test this, so why on Earth would I or anyone else be happy to be a guinea pig? Especially when up till now, medical experts have been saying no mixing?

I’m aware of this. I’m also aware of our current lifestyle and hospital numbers and am at significant risk of Covid contact.

I’ll have a different vaccine, rather than just one dose. Feel free to wait for your clinic trials. Make your own choice.

[quote trulydelicious]@Em777

What is your agenda?

On another thread you said are not originally from the UK and criticized the UK government endlessly (the topic of the thread was about children).

More government bashing on this one.

I'm not trying to defend the government, but you come across as a very articulate political activist out to stir up trouble and your posts are increasingly uncomfortable to read TBH[/quote]
Agree. And I think Em777 is scaremongering and has an agenda. Batches for vaccines are always recorded. Always.
This is standard procedure for obvious reasons for all vaccines. They even do this for dogs and cats let alone humans.

[quote trulydelicious]@Moondust001

I'm just saying that I've witnessed the OP dishing out vitriol against the government for no reason and attepmting to subtly hijack threads

It looks like covert political activism to me and is worrying

I'm not implying any particular topic is not worthy of debate[/quote]
It's just so hard to find people "dishing out vitriol against the government" on mumsnet ordinarily, isn't it?

And the poster is hardly being "covert" by openly expressing their views on a public site that invites people to express their views and opinions. There is absolutely nothing wrong with "political activism". If you find all these things so offensive then you really should be looking for a safer place to go than mumsnet that is full of "political activism" and opinion.

What I find worrying is that you had to mention that the person was not born in the UK. Would you have dragged up the fact that someone else was born in the UK? Or that they had "political" opinions. Everything is political. That makes every opinion political. Have you seen the number of threads slamming the government for not closing all schools. There are even people who dare to think they should keep them open. And I bet one or two of those people may not have been born in the UK.

Your post was personally offensive and attacked the individual without expressing a single opinion or view on the content of their argument. That is wrong.

Most of us have had a multitude of other vaccines in the past, you probably had a different flu vaccine manufacturer every year but simply never asked who made it. There is no special reason to expect a problem from mixing these two vaccines and they are actually being trialled to see if it improves efficacy overall.

Sputnik was already two different types of vaccine, and they've been trialling the Oxford Astrazeneca vaccine in Russia as one half of the Sputnik regime recently (www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/health-55273907). They also announced in early December a trial mixing Oxford and Pfizer to start in January: (www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/08/covid-mixed-vaccine-trial-likely-to-begin-in-uk-next-month), so clearly they are expecting decent results from the Sputnik trial info so far. The authorisation is clear that it's only to be done outside the trial right now if the other vaccine isn't available (see myriad Pfizer distribution issues worldwide) and someone is considered at risk, not that it should be done routinely before the trials complete.

Unless you invested all your savings in Pfizer, it really shouldn't bother you that trials are investigating the best possible regime for the long term with drugs that are already tested and confirmed as safe. You should also be aware that investment interests sometimes affect what is written in newspapers.

[quote trulydelicious]@Em777

What is your agenda?

On another thread you said are not originally from the UK and criticized the UK government endlessly (the topic of the thread was about children).

More government bashing on this one.

I'm not trying to defend the government, but you come across as a very articulate political activist out to stir up trouble and your posts are increasingly uncomfortable to read TBH[/quote]
Zero agenda, I promise. I read non-British media sources sometimes and was taught to think critically at uni, apparently this makes me an activist now! 😂

This was very prominent on the New York Times website last night and the content shocked me, that is all.

But Em777 why spend so much time on a U.K. based website on reading non British press presumably looking for articles that are critical to come and post them here? I think to you care what the U.K. government are doing so much if it does not affect you personally? Do you do the same on your own countries equivalent to Mumsnet?
Spread negative stories on your own government you have found in foreign press?
What is your own countries vaccine program like? Let us know and we can evaluate what we think they are doing rightly and wrongly,
I must say I find it odd that someone would be so interested in another countries vaccine policies to the point They would post about it negatively a lot on a parenting website based in that country. What would be the point? Other than to spread negativity?

@sashagabadon

But Em777 why spend so much time on a U.K. based website on reading non British press presumably looking for articles that are critical to come and post them here? I think to you care what the U.K. government are doing so much if it does not affect you personally? Do you do the same on your own countries equivalent to Mumsnet? Spread negative stories on your own government you have found in foreign press? What is your own countries vaccine program like? Let us know and we can evaluate what we think they are doing rightly and wrongly, I must say I find it odd that someone would be so interested in another countries vaccine policies to the point They would post about it negatively a lot on a parenting website based in that country. What would be the point? Other than to spread negativity?

I live in the UK. So it very much affects me personally. I’m an Australian by birth who has lived here for 8 years.

Anyone worried by what they’ve read in the OP should click on the link and read the entire article.

Because it also says that it is normal for the regulator to decide the rising regimen, not the manufacturer.

It also says they do this themselves with vaccines in the US.

It also says this is a last resort particularly for people at very high risk and every effort will be made to give the same dose.

Can I also point out that practically, this isn’t going to be an issue for the vast majority of people. Most people are going to get the Astra Zeneca vaccine.

The NHS is on the verge of collapse. If an extremely vulnerable person had one dose of the Pfizer vaccine at the beginning (which has 91% efficacy), and was given the AZ vaccine 3 months later, yes, there is no clinical trial evidence this will work to top up the 91% efficacy.
Yet.
Who knows in 3 months from now?

But with a high risk profile it would be better to have the second dose of a different vaccine.

Sorry rising = dosing

This really is unbelievable. I can’t believe I’m being attacked for posting a NYT article.

Can those with critical thinking skills explain the mechanism by which they think this would cause problems?

@sashagabadon you really ought to try reading some foreign press, helps to give a wider perspective on many issues.