Hospitalisation Rates in Children

[ClimbDad]

Mumsnet removed a thread discussing hospitalisation and risks to children following the LBC interview with the hospital matron.

The Department of Health publishes hospitalisation figures by age. Daily hospitalisation of children is currently averaging 40 to 50 admissions.

coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare?areaType=nation&areaName=England

The admissions criteria is designed to exclude children who are in hospital for other reasons and catch Covid-19.

I don’t know what we consider an acceptable level of risk. We haven’t had that conversation as a country, but I feel sorry for the hundreds of families living through this horrific experience every week.

And could it be as simple as the fact that between September and December the age group 10-19 were in situations (classrooms, transport) wherei there was zero social distancing so it would be more prevalent and transmissible in this group. For a whole month there was a national lockdown but not for school children. I feel like I'm pointing out the obvious but I don't understand why this is not a factor.

Absolutely @Barbie222 that’s my concern above all others.

@mrshoho

And could it be as simple as the fact that between September and December the age group 10-19 were in situations (classrooms, transport) wherei there was zero social distancing so it would be more prevalent and transmissible in this group. For a whole month there was a national lockdown but not for school children. I feel like I'm pointing out the obvious but I don't understand why this is not a factor.

But we are about to do the same again, send them all back into school with no protection, and then worst of all not ask close contacts to isolate.

@mrshoho

And could it be as simple as the fact that between September and December the age group 10-19 were in situations (classrooms, transport) wherei there was zero social distancing so it would be more prevalent and transmissible in this group. For a whole month there was a national lockdown but not for school children. I feel like I'm pointing out the obvious but I don't understand why this is not a factor.

This is mentioned as a potential influence on why cases are higher in under 20s in the Imperial article that was just linked to.

www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/mrc-gida/2020-12-31-COVID19-Report-42-Preprint-VOC.pdf

I work in maternity. On a purely numbers basis we can sometimes have around 10-15 pregnant/postnatal woman admitted to our hospital who have tested positive for COVID-19.

None of these women are patients BECAUSE they have covid though. They are in due to normal pregnancy problems or labour/recovering from birth. They just happen to have been picked up as being covid positive on routine admission swabs.

I’m sure there are lots of children also in hospitals for a whole load of reasons like broken bones, surgery, various other reasons who have happened to also have covid. Doesn’t mean they are symptomatic or particularly unwell.

It seems much easier to collect raw data on ‘how many people are in hospital with covid?’ Compared to ‘how many are in hospital BECAUSE they have covid and need hospital-based medical treatment?’

Two very different things.

Sorry yes I didn't read the report. And yes we are going to send them all back again. School staff have been saying since last Summer that it does not follow the science to have kids in enclosed rooms with no protection other than hand washing.

why cant the children take their lateral flow tests home for their parents to assist with?

@Skipsurvey

why cant the children take their lateral flow tests home for their parents to assist with?

I believe they are not yet approved for home use. But that was going to be the plan for primary.

@Barbie222

Surely the point is that even if the new variant is no more dangerous, there is a finite amount of care available, paediatric care included, and we really don't want to be getting into a situation where we are sending children around the country or making decisions about admissions to care.

Yes this! ^^ Whether the new variant poses a greater risk to children or not (unfortunately it's probably a little early to know either way with certainty), if there are very large numbers catching it, we could still risk reaching child hospital capacity in the way we already have for adults in parts of the south east.

Lateral flow tests are used at home already by healthcare workers, I know several medics and they were each given a box of tests to test themselves weekly.
Surely better to test at home with parent (and if positive, they are already at home!) than at school with a volunteer

This tweet might be reassuring...

@mrshoho

And could it be as simple as the fact that between September and December the age group 10-19 were in situations (classrooms, transport) wherei there was zero social distancing so it would be more prevalent and transmissible in this group. For a whole month there was a national lockdown but not for school children. I feel like I'm pointing out the obvious but I don't understand why this is not a factor.

It's not entirely that. If you look at the demographics (via the heat map on the government website) you can see that the places in Lancashire that had the huge numbers earlier in the term, still didn't have huge numbers in the 0-4, 5-9, 10-14 categories. If you compare to the SE/London now where the 10-14 often leads the increase and the 5-9 and even 0-4 categories are high and climbing.

If it was as simple as just schools were in, you would expect to see similar patterns in the Lancashire places as schools were open then too.

According to the ONS infection survey to 18 December, the rates for secondary were almost 3,000/100,000 and primary 2,000/100,000.
According to the govt dashboard the rates for the closest age group matches for England as a whole were age 5-9 173/100,000 and age 10-14 350/100,000.
So I am not sure how useful it is to look at the dashboard heat maps as they only show a fraction of the story.

@ceeveebee

Lateral flow tests are used at home already by healthcare workers, I know several medics and they were each given a box of tests to test themselves weekly. Surely better to test at home with parent (and if positive, they are already at home!) than at school with a volunteer

Yes but they're medics already, and were given some training (maybe only a video though?) and had to be observed the first time they did it.

I know they are medics already - but the teaching support staff and parent volunteers won’t be? So why not use parents instead?

It's all a rubbish idea basically!

Yesterday 23:05 OutwiththeOutCrowd

I would like to repost a non-alarmist and informative report on the susceptibility of children to the new variant from the BMJ. ( I posted it originally on one of the zapped threads.)

The severity of disease issue was not addressed in the article.

"Are children more susceptible to the new variant?
Yes, in comparison with the non-variant virus. Speaking at a press briefing, Neil Ferguson, director of the Medical Research Council’s Centre for Global Infectious Disease Analysis at Imperial College London and NERVTAG member, said that during the November lockdown in England there was a “general shift in the distribution of the virus towards children—for both the variant and the non-variant [virus].” This was expected, because of schools remaining open during the lockdown, he said, and among those aged under 15 there were slightly more cases of the variant virus in the community than the non-variant, though not significantly so.

But Barclay, who also sits on NERVTAG, said, “Let’s be clear. We’re not saying that this is a virus that specifically attacks children or is any more specific in its ability to infect children. But we know that SARS-CoV-2, as it emerged, was not as efficient at infecting children as it was adults. There are many hypotheses [as to why], but one is the expression of the ACE2 receptor that could be different in children. So if the [new variant] virus is having an easier time of finding and entering the cells, then that would put children on a more level playing field, if you like.”

www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4944

Yes and this is an example of exactly why this is an extremely serious situation, and has been right from the start. Why we must all try our best to follow the guidelines, even more so now, and stay within the restrictions as best we possibly can. Science is still learning about this virus, so it's STILL best to err on the side of caution

@mrshoho

Sorry yes I didn't read the report. And yes we are going to send them all back again. School staff have been saying since last Summer that it does not follow the science to have kids in enclosed rooms with no protection other than hand washing.

I thought so when numbers started to climb on schools ages, specially secondary, between September and November. But now, with the new variant, it is natural to start questioning if it is affecting children more than the previous one. Sending them to school is based on the virus not affecting them, meaning not making them sick at all, or in a few cases, a light cold symptoms. If this has changed, we will need to change accordingly. Gov is checking it up. Still no data enough. But they have said that it can bind to children's receptors better. We could get to the situation where we need to close schools, or ho part time to allow SD, to protect children from getting it. Hopefully not. I think it is still unlikely. Between this, and the daily numbers climbing so fast, it is only natural that parents are worried about sending them back on Monday. And that the health sector points out that they are getting younger patients, including children, and getting close to their capacity (for adults). We were all expecting a big peak after Christmas, but not a new variant, I think.

I quoted the wrong post! I will quote now the one I wanted!

@mrshoho

And could it be as simple as the fact that between September and December the age group 10-19 were in situations (classrooms, transport) wherei there was zero social distancing so it would be more prevalent and transmissible in this group. For a whole month there was a national lockdown but not for school children. I feel like I'm pointing out the obvious but I don't understand why this is not a factor.

It qas about this one.

Why is this information being suppressed?

It’s interesting that that nurse hasn’t responded to any of the posts on her Twitter feed asking for clarification or evidence on what a ward full of child covid patients meant

I don't use Twitter and don't intend to start, but just wondering if someone could have hacked her account and that the comments didn't come from "the matron" at all?

The trouble with SM is that anyone can say they're anything - even without hacking anyone else - but can anyone who knows how these things work comment on whether the above could have happened?

People who work in paediatric are telling you it’s not true. So who to believe - comment on twitter or paediatricians?

I do agree @MushMonster that it needs investigating and reviewing and it is potentially worrying. I do wonder though if the lockdown in November was detrimental to our kids as the virus was able to take hold in the schools whilst a large amount of the population was distancing. The virus looks for a host and if children are the nearest they get it. I believe scientists are looking at this side also. Until recently the attitude in this country was to let the kids crack on and we have not protected them as we should have. I'm angry about it.

twitter.com/RosieMa61778933/status/1345355904271659008?s=20

Rosie Mann
@RosieMa61778933
Replying to
@bbc5live
and
@BBCSounds
Laura Duffels report is apparently being disregarded as rubbish. Ive just called and spoken to Laura Duffel at Kings and she put the phone down on me when I said as a local parent I wanted the facts. Can Radio 5 please verify this story and fact check with someone else in Kings
1:06 PM · Jan 2, 2021·Twitter for iPhone

Rosie Mann
@RosieMa61778933
·
1h
Replying to
@RosieMa61778933

@bbc5live
and
@BBCSounds
Im currently on the line to the hospital manager to fact check and also have contacted one of their governors. Kings is my local hospital and we all need the full and correct facts

Rosie Mann
@RosieMa61778933
·
1h
Replying to
@RosieMa61778933

@bbc5live
and
@BBCSounds
Now Kings say no one is available to comment. Is anyone there going to take responsibility and confirm the facts made in this statement