To have to accept that many in this country just don’t give a shit about others?

[Fortheweekend]

I live in Essex which, like many areas has been heavily hit by Covid.
Just heard on the news that Essex Police have had to issue many, many fines last night to people having New Years Eve parties.
I really deeply saddens me that so many people just don’t give a toss about other people.
They can not see past their own noses. Can they not see or do they not give a shit about the long term costs of their actions? That this goes beyond the virus, that because the NHS is overwhelmed people with potential life threatening conditions such as cancer will be overlooked or diagnosis/treatments delayed as they will not be able to get appointments or appointments cancelled because of too many Covid cases in their hospitals.
That people such as those I work with who suffer from disabilities or people like my poor mum who has Alzheimer’s have been isolated for many, many months and many more to come because support groups open and they and their carers will and are suffering from terrible depression and mental health issues which cut deep and will probably never heal.
Do they not care that people like my 90 year old neighbour who is all alone is shit scared every single day because she feels that she will never be able to live out her last months/years with the freedom she had been used to and genuinely believes she will die alone, without help and never having the freedom to just pop to the shops for she fears she will get the virus.
It truly leaves me feeling nothing but despair as I don’t think we will ever control this virus if people don’t do as asked for the short while it would take.

We were forewarned, not forwarded. We're not emails.

@DownstairsMixUp

No offence but the real covid devours are just as selfish. Everytime I see anyone including myself open up about what's happened to them this year that isn't covid related they just don't care and think the other person is "selfishl" example of me on a fb group:

I lost my dad 2020 in April in a hit and run, we had a tiny funeral and was not allowed a a wake. I have not been able to grieve for him as I've had no closure and I am no closer to even planning a memorial party.

Crazy covid person: well just be happy that he didn't die from covid!!! you aren't the only person to lose this year, you following the rules is keeping everyone else safe!!

Me; I have been following the rules, never said I wasn't. Said I'm struggling to maintain a year on when I have my dads ashes sitting in my loft and I'm not even allowed to spread them where he wanted them because I can't go abroad. My mental health is very low and I imagine these restrictions are affecting people very badly and no, if restrictions carry on past February I will be taking no notice and will do as I please.

Ccp: then you are very selfish and part of the problem and you will never get to have your dads party!!! Shame on you

This sort of behaviour is being put on lots of people that suffered trauma that was not related to covid in 2020 and I'm just about sick of people acting like a year of sacrifices now is not enough!

This is so true. I know exactly how you feel.

Someone on my fb page this morning described the whole pandemic as 'a storm in a teacup'.

This person has the attitude that we're being fed lies by the media. It's not nearly as bad as we've been lead to believe and as it's only old people dying it's not a problem for the rest of society.

Only it's not just old people being affected and getting ill, and even if it were what a bloody awful attitude. But it's and attitude you see quite a lot on social media.

If people are doing that quietly, how would you know?

That’s fair, @Blackberrycream - maybe I’m just an old cynic! But my Facebook/school newsletter is full of people essentially showing off about how they’ve raised money for the food bank, or they’ve taken a Christmas dinner to their neighbour. If we genuinely did care about those very much less fortunate, there’d be an outcry about the recent cig to foreign aid, for example - but that’s all a bit abstract and doesn’t offer many bragging rights.

Not necessarily everyone, though - I do take your point.

@amicissimma

I think there are a lot of people who have absolutely no idea of the suffering that months of social isolation has caused others.

I keep seeing posts saying that people should be more resilient, that they can keep socialising through Zoom etc, that they can form a support bubble, nonsense about the War. That people desparate for some real human company are selfish and 'granny killers' and the reason this is going on so long. I suspect that such posters are either in a situation where they have someone, maybe several, with them, or have always been very self-sufficient and just don't feel the need for others. Well, they're very lucky. Others are really struggling with the isolation and are now being condemned as well.

Some people are really scared of the virus which is hardly surprising the way the Government and media have whipped us up with daily updates on the deaths with Covid, omitting to mention the approx 1500 other deaths that occur each day anyway.

The virus spreads through normal human activity. Without people going out and doing stuff which we need and thus spreading the virus we would have all perished by now.

The selfish people are the ones who are making this dark time harder by being unkind to those who are experiencing it in a different way.

The problem is almost every time I see someone talking about the isolation, which I concede is a valid point, it is usually accompanied by the poster downplaying the risk of the virus (it appears it can cause lasting lung damage and kidney damage, and we don't yet know what other permanent damage) and going on about other deaths per day. That has the result of me dismissing that person's post immediately. If say 1500 people per day die of a car accident or a heart attack, they are not spreading that risk to other vulnerable people. You cannot compare it. And imo a person who tries to argue the isolation argument loses credibility the second they try and downplay this very deadly and infectious virus and attempt to compare it to any other death per day. You don't do yourself or your argument any favours by resorting to that silliness.

Another from Essex...
Everybody is selfish, depending on the POV. We are not all experiencing this the same.

The people shouting for further or more restrictive lockdowns, are typically those they haven't had any financial changes this year. Those shouting about the covid deaths, generally aren't taking into account that deaths from other things are also happening, and people can be upset about those too. They'll say how covid deaths are pretty permanent, but hey, so are suicides and I can tell you they devastate the lives of those left behind.

It isn't about one group of people being more selfish than the other, but if you aren't able to recognise that there is more going on than just covid, then there is a problem, and maybe that is selfish.

@Cokie3 we are not all in the same boat at all, that's another ridiculous saying. Someone who has plenty of savings, is married with children in a nice big house is not in the same boat as someone living completely alone in a small flat with hardly any money.

[quote CremeEggThief]@Vitaminsss, just to point out we are all in contact with people who are vulnerable for one reason or another. You can't separate "the vulnerable" from society.[/quote]
That’s not true - I’m certainly not in contact with anyone that’s vulnerable.

Currently we’re all being separated from society. Everyone is currently locked away, when the majority of us aren’t vulnerable. It’s not about separating the vulnerable from society, it’s that life has to begin to get back to normal for the rest of society at some point. It doesn’t make sense to keep us all “equally” locked up.

I don't give a flying fuck about people outside of my family and friends. You know why? Because the British public are a bunch of rude, arrogant arseholes who wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire. What the fuck is there to care about? They can all fuck right off.

The majority of us are respecting the guidelines and understand these precautions are intended to protect the NHS as much as possible.My fear is that people with the above attitude will lead the majority to react with/accept draconian measures to cease such foolishness and we will head towards a society with extreme rules (like China?), all because of the minority of ... well, what are they? Stupid? Selfish? I'm not sure.
For example, @JinglesWish - are your relatives neurotypical? Why/how can your cousin not comprehend the current situation?

@Neron you talk about suicide as if it's something only related to the actions we take to prevent COVID, not the action of the virus itself but that's just not true. Measures social distancing, job losses, isolation certainly contribute towards suicide for some people but so does losing loved ones or becoming permanently disabled. The children who are losing parents now are at far greater risk of mental health issues, including suicide, in the future. It's not a zero sum game at all.

[quote Waxonwaxoff0]@Cokie3 we are not all in the same boat at all, that's another ridiculous saying. Someone who has plenty of savings, is married with children in a nice big house is not in the same boat as someone living completely alone in a small flat with hardly any money.[/quote]
I meant in terms of not being able to see loved ones. No matter how rich or how poor, everyone is cut off from at least someone. Relative or friend. Either due to being overseas and no able to visit, or even just locally if there are restrictions. Everyone has someone they are cut off from. Even if it is one person.

@Porcupineintherough no I don't. I mention suicide, because on countless threads on here, people are scoffing at the idea that suicides have increased.
I'm well aware of other reasons why people kill themself. My dad killed himself. I'm also watching one of my sisters struggle right now, hoping she doesn't follow the same path.

@BooksAreNotEssentialInWales

To be honest I think it is the Media that have got people screaming at each other not the government. At the last conference they made it quite clear the figs have gone up because of the mutation . They were not blaming rule breakers .

They were pleading for people to listen though.

Perhaps there are those who just won’t or don’t care . Not sure what you can do about that .

I think a lot of people on MN haven't yet had the new strain take hold in their area and they don't realise how much of a different situation we are in at the moment.

I think those in areas where the new strain has taken hold (like Essex) may not have been impacted personally yet, but I think it is a matter of days before they are.

@Vitaminsss

So you know no one with an invisible illness like diabetes or thyroid complaint or is over 60 or is slightly overweight ?

Or do you know the medical history of the person serving you behind a bar or the person sitting next to you at work ?

Because all of those make you more vunerable .

In London they are seeing an increase in hospitalisation in those between age 40 to 60 . That’s not old .

@CarolEffingBaskin

I don't give a flying fuck about people outside of my family and friends. You know why? Because the British public are a bunch of rude, arrogant arseholes who wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire. What the fuck is there to care about? They can all fuck right off.

And this attitude perpetuates that very cycle...

Saying “people will bounce back” is patronising. Will they? What provisions are being put in place to ensure this?

Mental health services already couldn’t cope with the amount of patients that couldn’t simply “bounce back” and needed assistance pre-pandemic. Are mental health services being bolstered to cope with the additional people needing help now? No.

I do think when the eldest and most vunerable are vaccinated the rest of society will have to take their chance and carry on . There is no way everyone can be vaccinated. But beware because the virus is affecting younger people and many are suffering long covid . Even very healthy people .

So be careful what you wish for .

Big line outside the firework shop last night with no masks. Can anybody tell me how thats essential?

Yanbu op. You only had to read last nights thread about reporting a party. The names the op was called and told to mind her own business was appalling.
It's everyone's business and until people realise that things won't change.

@WednesdayAllTheWay

I recently came to the same conclusion. But in more charitable moments I feel it is more the general tendency of humans to feel they are different to others and therefore that the rules don't apply to them and /or that "it won't happen to me" ...until it does. And there's Dominic Cummings. I think a lot of people though "why should I bother" after he got off scott free.

I have a friend, known for 35 years, works for the Govt (not an MP!) who just travelled from Plymouth to Newcastle to visit family (not in a bubble) for 4 days. When I expressed surprise she was still going she said: 'Well, Cummings...'. I was not impressed with that logic but she seemed to think it was fine, for her/her family. I thought it selfish.

And yes the media have whipped up divisions between folk. The Govt have given unclear / ever changing rules which hasn't helped as there has been endless discussion and disagreement about interpretation.
Divide and Rule, isn't it?

YANBU OP, I also live in essex and to make it worse the church where the rave was held was broken into and now need an electrician to make their power supply safe again thanks to the selfish, ignorant twats.

It's normal not to care as much about strangers as our own loved ones. It's why we buy cheap clothes and electronics often made by children in appalling conditions, consume chocolate and exotic fruits grown using pesticides that leave unprotected workers with serious health problems, let people in developing countries die of preventable diseases when we could easily spare the money that treatment would cost. There are people who really do care and go out of their way to minimise the damage done by those things, but they're the tiny exception, not the rule.

All of those things would be far easier to give up than the huge sacrifices that many have had to make to help prevent the spread of covid, and yet it's only now that everyone's getting up in arms about how selfish and entitled we all are. Why? Because this time the consequences of other people's 'selfishness' are affecting you and your loved ones, instead of hidden away in a developing country on the other side of the world? Doesn't that just prove the point?

@Fortheweekend no of course I can’t be sure. I can take an educated estimate of risk, as with everything else in life. I can’t be sure that I won’t die in a car accident, or that my child will be safe at nursery, or that I won’t contract/ develop a myriad of other diseases and viruses that I may have an adverse reaction to, or that my plane won’t go down, or I won’t have a miscarriage, I could go on and on and on. That is life. Everyone is mortal, we all live with risk. Human pathogens are part of the risk of living in a human society. This is a nasty little virus, especially for the old, but luckily not dangerous to the vast majority of people. We have lived with these types of pathogens throughout human history, the only thing unusual about this situation is the hysterical way that people have responded and their apparent willingness to sacrifice / risk almost everything else in life , for the sake of minimising covid risk, meanwhile, by the way, it hasn’t been particularly effective. You say people who aren’t prepared to tow the line of covid-fundamentalism are selfish, I say people like you are selfish for all the enormous sacrifices you are asking others to make in the name of your fundamentalist ideas. which imv you have no right to ask of them.