I fucking knew it. Second vaccine dose.

[NiceGerbil]

News is that people who have had first dose are only getting second 3 months later. Against the guidelines of the org who made the vaccine.

I said this rush to push it out would result in, how are they going to follow up and make sure they get the second?

And here we go. Second dose not organised. UK govt say this is AOK.

FFS. I'd rather they took the time to do it properly. But hey. Pissup in a brewery situation again.

I said a few days ago to DH. Are they properly tracking this to make sure the follow up jab isn't missed?

I was too optimistic. Govt have decided second jab isn't that important.

FFS.

Don’t health workers need to have the second dose before being able to vaccinate other people?

@RedToothBrush- 'an idea already circulating in professional circles and was based on how the Oxford trial was done in the first place...'

Do you have evidence for this? I understood that the two doses were delivered 4 weeks apart in the trial.

@cathyandclare unfortunately not they have been advised to shield with me as their learning disabilities mean they cannot socially distance from me, so if they had Covid they could well give it to me.
They are not at risk of becoming seriously ill themselves.
My consultant has advised me very strongly not to leave the house sort from exercise still wearing a mask and where there are not other people.

[quote Oaktree55]@cathyandclare there’s no data to support the fact the vaccines are sterilising.[/quote]
There is no evidence that to the contrary either. Research indicates that asymptomatic people are less likely to transmit the infection, so it's reasonable to think that widespread vaccination will reduce spread.

www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32651-9/fulltext

@AldiAisleOfCrap Why are you talking about this being so healthy people get the vaccine sooner? There are still millions of vulnerable people waiting.

Can I ask you and others insisting you or your relatives should get the second dose as originally planned, would you really want that if it stopped a similarly vulnerable person getting the vaccine sooner and not dying as a result (as it well might)?

@AldiAisleofCrap while I have huge sympathy for your particular situation and how worrying this must be for you, we are talking about this on a bigger scale than any individual stories.
I have my fingers crossed that this works.

@MarcelineMissouri the JCVI report attached states ... thank you.

@cathyandclare I know. Zero evidence we need to wait and see before we make policy decisions based on more assumptions.

I don't think those who have already been given a date and time for their second dose should be cancelled at this late stage. It will be a logistical nightmare for surgeries and may even lead to doses being wasted and this is before you even consider the upset/ inconvenience to the patients and the potential cosent issues.

I don't disagree with a pragmatic approach to delivering the vaccine in general but I don't think there is scientific evidence for this approach (doses 12 weeks apart). I'm assuming the MHRA extrapolated evidence from pre clinical trials and looked at immune responses rather than actual patient data. If this is the case, I would much rather they were honest and open about it. If anyone has any better understanding I would be interested.

Did you look at the paper on asymptomatic spread?

It’s just amazing if people were asked a year ago would our Government go against trial data in a national crisis people would scoff.

We’ve become so accepting as things have been allowed to get so bad through poor decision making and lack of leadership.

It’s in danger of making things worse here not better.

I don’t know what to think. I have worry’s about getting the vaccine. They said there will be delays with Oxford one. I never thought things would happen quickly or on time. Look at track and trace. Our phone app, PPE everything to be honest. I wish we had a government I could just in to make the right decisions and not fuck up everything they touch or get involved with.There are like a bull in a China shop

Seems rather concerning.
81 yr old mum was looking forward to getting vaccine number 2 on 6 th Jan... now looks like she won’t get it.
Surely it is given in two lots like Hepatitis B vaccine is for a REASON??!

@cathyandclare yes it’s hoped the vaccines will limit spread but as yet there’s no data and if you’re a betting person the mRNA are likely to limit spread more than Oxford.

My other concern is that the rates are currently very high in this country and that there is therefore a higher chance of individuals coming into contact with the virus currently particularly if they feel protected psychologically and stop social distancing, etc

81 yr old mum was looking forward to getting vaccine number 2 on 6 th Jan... now looks like she won’t get it. My 87 year old aunt hasn't had first dose yet, maybe your mum could just think she was lucky to get her's so early.

At the very least I hope there’s someone somewhere thinking “I know let’s monitor this change to dosing. Let’s keep a cohort on the Pfizer trial dosing and let’s compare to 12 week dosing”

Please, surely someone is doing this so we have comparable data ?!?!?

I get the argument that having more people get their first dose is better in our situation. It sounds reasonable to me, but of course I can't say if that works out better in practice because I'm not an expert.

But if anyone here IS an expert both in epidemiology AND the specific circumstances we face in the UK with our population density, numbers already infected and so on then I'd be interested in YOUR view on it.

Why isn't Keir Starmer pushing the government harder on this?

Perhaps because he's a politician, and right now he can afford to let the government make a mess of this (and take the consequent blame) all by themselves?
There's also a danger in saying what he'd do, because in these very fragile times he could find himself PM and being asked why he's not doing it

Or maybe because he doesn't disagree,🤷

@ancientgran

81 yr old mum was looking forward to getting vaccine number 2 on 6 th Jan... now looks like she won’t get it. My 87 year old aunt hasn't had first dose yet, maybe your mum could just think she was lucky to get her's so early.

Richmond, London.. surgeries seem on the ball and all her oldie mates have been done. Their first ones were done weeks ago.

Why should care home residents have to wait an extra 9 weeks for a social distanced still masked visit with relatives.

To protect other people. Hundreds of thousands have been unable to attend funerals, unable to access appropriate cancer or maternity care. My own sister was really ill with severe PND and couldn’t access support until she turned up at A&E. Many more are facing poverty as their employers cut staff or close entirely. It’s really shit for everyone.

It is really horrible for a lot of people who felt like the end was in sight and that’s now been pushed back by 9 weeks. But please don’t start thinking that those who agree with the new vaccine plan are doing it because we want to be allowed to go out socialising. For me, is because both my grandparents have had one dose and are reasonably protected and I want that for everyone else’s vulnerable loved ones too. It is because hospitals in my area are currently coping and I want that to last for here and for everywhere else in the country.

It’s just amazing if people were asked a year ago would our Government go against trial data in a national crisis people would scoff.

What's more amazing to me is that people are clamouring for a 2nd dose of a new vaccine when the Govt scientists have concluded a wait a bit longer approach is better. I don't think "going against trial data" is a correct characterisation. They have interpreted the trial data based on their scientific expertise to come to a different conclusion from that envisaged by the trial design - not quite the same thing.

I know loads of people in their late 80s. No one has been offered the vaccine yet. I only know health care workers who have had it.

@Dinnafashyersel it’s exactly the same thing. They’re making decisions based on assumptions rather than data. As I said a gamble.