I fucking knew it. Second vaccine dose.

[NiceGerbil]

News is that people who have had first dose are only getting second 3 months later. Against the guidelines of the org who made the vaccine.

I said this rush to push it out would result in, how are they going to follow up and make sure they get the second?

And here we go. Second dose not organised. UK govt say this is AOK.

FFS. I'd rather they took the time to do it properly. But hey. Pissup in a brewery situation again.

I said a few days ago to DH. Are they properly tracking this to make sure the follow up jab isn't missed?

I was too optimistic. Govt have decided second jab isn't that important.

FFS.

Also, I wonder if psychology we are better with just one dose? In that, if people still think they're vulnerable they might be more careful and this behaviour will help protect everyone including those who haven't been vaccinated and have no hope of vaccination for ages.

I am so fucking angry about this. Thank you for starting the thread, I don’t think there’s nearly enough public anger about this.

This decision (gap of 12 weeks) is based on the JCVI recommendation. It is supported by the Chief Medical Officers of all 4 parts of the U.K. These people have more qualifications, PhDs and experience then probably most of Mumsnet combined. I do not understand how nearly everything on Mumsnet can be turned into some evil Tory government conspiracy/cock up. This is an evolving situation. Yes, things will change. If it didn’t the same people would be moaning the gov hadn’t changed the situations.

It’s not just in the U.K. that this discussion is happening - Canada is also discussing this.

@Athinginitself

It seems like a really good rational decision for me. People wont be missed they are just being offered 2nd appointments a few weeks later. Better that we vaccinate as many people as possible with the first dose, giving a good level of short term protection. I dont agree with appointments being cancelled, it's a waste of nhs time, but think anyone receiving the vaccine from now on should have a longer interval.

The BMJ found that the Covid-19: Pfizer vaccine efficacy was 52% after first dose and 95% after second dose. BMJ also found that C19 death rate is 0.66% and increases with age.

Considering how low the effectiveness of the first dose (and even with the second dose) is, I really don’t see the point in just giving people the first dose. Both doses seem a good solution for those at a high risk of dying, but not those who aren’t at risk (seeing as the death rate is 0.66%).

Fucking useless Tory cunts.

Culling of the masses.

The USA also.

I think @Kendodd's analogy of limited food supplies is a really good one. Noone is saying lengthening the dose between dose 1 and 2 is ideal. Simply that, based on what we know, the harm of doing so is likely to be substantially less than leaving many who are also very vulnerable with no protection at all.

@EleanorRigbyWasReal

Fucking useless Tory cunts.

Culling of the masses.

Jesus.

@Rainallnight

I am so fucking angry about this. Thank you for starting the thread, I don’t think there’s nearly enough public anger about this.

Why should there be? I would think most people would a) trust the judgement of the JCVI as they usually do and b) receive their first dose much quicker.

@cutebear - please see the links and comments on the previous page. You're misreading the 52% figure.

I am so fucking angry about this. Thank you for starting the thread, I don’t think there’s nearly enough public anger about this. Some of us are happy about it as we know vulnerable people who will get some protection faster. Hopefully it will also help control numbers needing hospital care. Maybe that is why there isn't more anger.

Repeat. In the 21 days after the first dose, efficacy was 52% for the full 21 days. This included ~ 10 days of no effect. After 11 days, the vaccine clicked in like a switch and efficacy is 91%.

Oxford is ~70% effective after 22 days.
Pfizer is 91% effective after 11 days.

We can save twice as many lives by giving one dose now.

@EleanorRigbyWasReal

Fucking useless Tory cunts.

Culling of the masses.

You see, you read loads of posts detailing the scientific decisions and the qualifications of those making those decisions.

Then you see the thread spammed with this drivel.

@EleanorRigbyWasReal

Fucking useless Tory cunts.

Culling of the masses.

You're an idiot

On balance I think it is a reasonable decision

Meanwhile, on another thread, 2900+ mnetters have said they would get out of bed at 2:15 am to get their single dose.

Fucking useless Tory cunts Culling of the masses.

I'm usually the first to agree and would point to the 100,000+ people Tory austerity has killed (and were elected with 80 seat majority afterwards) but I actually agree with the vaccine decision. Get as many people as possible with at least some protection.

@EleanorRigbyWasReal

Fucking useless Tory cunts.

Culling of the masses.

Bet you felt dead edgy and cool writing that.

@FourTeaFallOut

Meanwhile, on another thread, 2900+ mnetters have said they would get out of bed at 2:15 am to get their single dose.

Yup. I quite want to point out to my fellow clinicians, furious their second appointment has been cancelled, that I would quite literally crawl over broken glass to be in their shoes. Or to get just one dose for my parents - both mid 80s, serious heart conditions.

I understand the anger. We've all been scared a long time and working anyway. I understand why that's exploding out. But they're still in a more fortunate position than many.

@Eyewhisker that's interesting. I've searched the thread but can't find a source for this. Would you mind posting the source again?
It would put my mind at rest as I've had my first Pfizer vaccine and due my second on 12th Jan which will be cancelled now.

@Eyewhisker

Repeat. In the 21 days after the first dose, efficacy was 52% for the full 21 days. This included ~ 10 days of no effect. After 11 days, the vaccine clicked in like a switch and efficacy is 91%.

Oxford is ~70% effective after 22 days.
Pfizer is 91% effective after 11 days.

We can save twice as many lives by giving one dose now.

Nope. You keep stating this. This is incorrect. The evidence does NOT show this, and no actual scientist has EVER said that it does.

It is really unforgiveable to try to present incorrect evidence when you know it is incorrect, @Eyewhisker.

You are allowed to wish for more people to get one dose than fewer people get 2 doses without having to post incorrect information.

My mum is convinced this decision has been taken 'by Boris', against all advice from scientists and the medical community.

Is there any evidence at all to support this?

Also, as I understand it, the 50% effective figure doesn't leave the other 50% completely unprotected by the vaccine. If they do get covid at all, they get a much less serious illness so even if they do get it they're much less likely to die.

MN hysteria at its finest.

Why is there so much lack of balance? Significant swearing and abuse hardly adds weight to any argument but makes those speaking look unhinged!