Lateral flow tests - if they allow school children to bypass self isolation why not use them within the nhs?

[YuleAreBeingUnREASTIEable]

I was talking to a friend who works in the nhs yesterday. She has had time off because of waiting for covid test results for her dc. During that time she was asked to come into hospital regardless because they were so short staffed. It seems so many are off ill or self isolating that the whole system is close to collapse.

Which made me think, if lateral flow tests are being rolled out as a way of keeping children in school because they don’t need to self isolate if they test daily, why haven’t they already done this for hospital staff self isolating.

My logic is because the tests aren’t so accurate, but then why are they safe for those in schools (where distancing is impossible with the current guidelines)?

The thing is when schools are asking for permission to test students it isn’t being made clear that it is to replace isolation and also using these type of tests.
So many parents will have no idea about this.

@MissMarpletheMurderer

The weekend comment is even more worrying. So no isolation, despite being close contact so football training, matches meal out, see granny etc at the weekend.

The handbook says they need to isolate over any days that they cannot test (e.g. weekend) then resume testing until their 7 days is up. If the 7 days is up over the course of days when they can't test, then they have to test on the next day.

I work in a hospital we test ourselves twice weekly with lateral flow tests. If it's positive you then have a PCT test to see if it's a true positive. We have been doing it for about 2 months. In our trust I believe they have shown to be around 94% effective.

@20viona

I work in a hospital we test ourselves twice weekly with lateral flow tests. If it's positive you then have a PCT test to see if it's a true positive. We have been doing it for about 2 months. In our trust I believe they have shown to be around 94% effective.

What happens if you are identified as a close contact of a positive covid case?

How do you know they're 94% affective if you didn't do a pcr test following every LF test to test their effectiveness?

94% of what? And based on what data if it wasn't testing again with a pcr to test the accuracy? Sorry that number means nothing without an explanation of how it was concluded upon.

Though even if it were true (and all of the studies seem to place LF testing at being between 3 and 70% effective with the upper estimates based on them being done by trained hcp in clinical environments - not 11 yos) 6% false negatives sitting in classrooms with no mitigation is hardly safe working/learning conditions.

OK. Let's take a step back though. Those with symptoms will still be asked to take a PCR test and isolate, like now. Accept this is up to parents to expedite, but then that is the same as previously, so no different.

LFT's used to weed out potential asymptomatic. Let's go for 50% accurate, and then they are sent for confirmatory PCR. That's an extra % taken out of circulation.

LFT's used on close contacts, who wouldn't have been know close contants without the LFT's, as they are asymptomicatic, and would, pre xmas have been in school, potentially spreading.

That's surely still a win situation, as you are taking out a further number of students with and without symptoms.

Of close contacts, those asked to isolate before xmas, missed many week of school, and most, 90%, never become positive. Or, actually, you never knew because they didn't get tested. So, repeatedly testing these students, rather than sending them home, you are at least gaining a few more positives, and getting them out of the system, and at the same time not keeping them out of the system unnecessarily.

It's still a win. No?

LFT's used on close contacts, who wouldn't have been know close contants without the LFT's, as they are asymptomicatic, and would, pre xmas have been in school, potentially spreading

What does this mean?

LFT's used on close contacts, who wouldn't have been know close contants without the LFT's, as they are asymptomicatic, and would, pre xmas have been in school, potentially spreading.

But they are known close contacts, based on seating plans. Those whom were sitting next to a confirmed positive case will still be in school and society, pending a positive from an unreliable LFT administered by Jim from across the road.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/947799/schools_and_colleges_testing_handbook.pdf

Does appear to be true they intend to use the tests to reduce isolation. This seems like madness. Poor teachers. And they’re not a priority for vaccination. I work with covid inpatients but still reckon I’d rather do that than be a teacher right now.

There were many close contacts who turned out to be asymptomatically positive at dds school just before Christmas. Close contacts means just that. One of dds classes constists of just 6 (unpopular subject) one of her classmates tests positive- she didn’t self-isolate.

I'd be rejoicing if these tests at least were highly reliable, even with all the other transmission issues they raise during, before and after the test...

The fact they are so rubbish, will give teens a false confidence once negative, and the simultaneous removal of any self isolation is terrifying.

Family member is HCP, colleague tested positive, family member is isolating but expecting to be asked to return to work after 3 days (her rota’d days off) as they are so short staffed.

No these are the close contacts of someone who has had symptoms therefore gotten a pcr test that has come back positive.

Up till now the people next to them on seating plans or the bus and who they said they had been in close prolonged contact with would isolate as an infection buffer.

Now that buffer will be removed and replaced with LF testing and no isolation

@Brown76

Family member is HCP, colleague tested positive, family member is isolating but expecting to be asked to return to work after 3 days (her rota’d days off) as they are so short staffed.

She presumably hasn't sat next to this colleague for 6 hours with no ppe though? That's equivalency

LFT's used on close contacts, who wouldn't have been know close contants without the LFT's, as they are asymptomicatic, and would, pre xmas have been in school, potentially spreading.

I have read this again and still don’t understand what you are saying, can you clarify, @BigWoollyJumpers ?

Think BigWoolly meant that those students would be close contacts of a positive which wouldn't have hitherto been picked up at all. That would only apply to the mass screening prior to return to the classroom, not later in term.

Oh right?

Close contacts are identified by the staff. Previously they would be sent home and isolated whereas now they will be in school and tested.

The lateral flow tests won’t identify anyone else as they won’t be used on anyone else.

The LTF tetse at the start of term will identify asymptomatic cases.

Are there plans for repeated mass testing to constantly flush out asymptomatic cases?

Don't think so herc.

BBC report about new strain increasing R by up to .7, small crumb of comfort I suppose:

Early data suggested that the virus was spreading more quickly among the under-20s, particularly among secondary school age children, but the latest results indicate that it is more infectious in all age groups.

Prof Axel Gandy, part of the research team, suggested that it may have appeared to spread more easily among school children simply because the early data was collected during the November lockdown, when adults' movements were restricted but schools remained open

Sorry that was for another thread. Will leave it here though as interesting to others maybe?

@JanuaryChill

Think BigWoolly meant that those students would be close contacts of a positive which wouldn't have hitherto been picked up at all. That would only apply to the mass screening prior to return to the classroom, not later in term.

Thank you.. yes, essentially MORE cases will be picked up, as asymptotic not included in PCR testing. And LESS children missing school for no reason, as PCR wasn't available without symptoms.

DD's school just emailed with full schedule of testing for school before school resumes. Really impressed. Lots of parent volunteers, many from NHS roles, so I have no issues with the testing at all.

@BigWoollyJumpers

DD's school just emailed with full schedule of testing for school before school resumes. Really impressed. Lots of parent volunteers, many from NHS roles, so I have no issues with the testing at all.

Has your school actually received any tests yet ?