Page 5 | If this doesn’t make you think twice about breaking COVID rules....

Strawberrycreamsundae · 2020-12-31T11:35:28+00:00

Then nothing will......🤬😡 [[bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55479018]]

HibernatingTill2030 · 31/12/2020 13:26

@Oliversmumsarmy

How can people spread a disease if they don’t have it.

All the people I know think we had this last December / January.

A fair few of them have been around people who have tested positive for Covid some as recently as early December and haven’t gone down with it again.

They aren’t going to be spreading this disease.

As for blood on their hands. Would you say that to your village newsagent who sells cigarettes. Cigarettes kill more people than Covid and not just those that choose to smoke. Why haven’t any government ever stopped the sale of cigarettes since it became clear they were a killer.

Your post is full of misinformation and dangerous assumptions.

You have no idea if you, or anyone you know, had this last December. It's highly unlikely you did.
Asymptomatic cases exist.
Unrelated, but the gov won't ban cigarettes because of tax.

TammyHullfigure · 31/12/2020 13:26

@SquirmOfEels

What more does he want people to do?

That's answered in the article. Don't have NYE gatherings

(Also wear your mask, keep your distance and wash your hands)

The vast majority of people are doing that!

HoofWankingSpangleCunt · 31/12/2020 13:27

Posted too soon. His comments were about human behaviour. I'm sure he has an awful lot to say about the government and his management but for today he talked about people. And ahead of Nye I believe he's right to concentrate on that.

Missushbb · 31/12/2020 13:27

@singingstones

Well, here we have a professor of medicine, specialist in intensive care, telling us what the situation is like at his hospital in London to try and get people to understand the consequences of breaking the rules.

MN response: "seems a bit like rhetoric to me" / "I don't think I believe the claim" / "scaremongering" / "hyperbolic"

Amazing - who would you lot believe?

Either the virus is as contagious as they say, so there is no stopping it anyway, or lockdowns should work. It's the virus not the victims fault! Totally OTT and does no one consider how this will again affect mental health??

stoneysongs · 31/12/2020 13:27

I think (reluctantly) that schools should close for a while, or rather go back to how things were in March, only hopefully with more consistent online teaching.

TammyHullfigure · 31/12/2020 13:27

@lonelyplanet

He needs to direct his anger at our incompetent government.

Precisely.

VitreousHumour · 31/12/2020 13:28

He’s not commenting on those who are already sick. He’s commenting on those who break the rules and thereby pass it to others, some of whom will go on to die.

Meredithgrey1 · 31/12/2020 13:28

@singingstones

Well, here we have a professor of medicine, specialist in intensive care, telling us what the situation is like at his hospital in London to try and get people to understand the consequences of breaking the rules.

MN response: "seems a bit like rhetoric to me" / "I don't think I believe the claim" / "scaremongering" / "hyperbolic"

Amazing - who would you lot believe?

I can believe him, and agree with him that people should follow the rules, wear masks where possible etc, while also thinking phrases like “blood on their hands” are over the top.

MistletoeandGin · 31/12/2020 13:29

I have to have contact with other people to do my job. If anyone wants to pay me to stay at home and therefore not have contact with others, that would be great.
My children have to have contact with others at school.
The virus is always going to spread because there is a large portion of society who cannot stay at home... not if we want food, water, gas and electricity, care services, medical treatment etc.

schoolsarenotsafe · 31/12/2020 13:29

With schools open, with classrooms filled with 30 children and staff, the virus will continue to spread.

Mask wearing is not permitted in most primary schools. What are teachers supposed to do to protect themselves and others?

SquirmOfEels · 31/12/2020 13:30

@motherrunner

I read this and have massive sympathy for an exhausted doctor but I thought ‘I wish I could reduce my contact. DH and I are secondary teachers, we have 2 primary aged DC. We’re in contact with over a thousand people a week with no PPE. He’s directing his anger at the wrong people.

Maybe, then, we should take his words and sling them at the DofE?

But as that dept of government seems impervious to what NHS is saying, I'm really not sure how anyone can make headway

HoofWankingSpangleCunt · 31/12/2020 13:31

@Becca19962014

I've just got back from getting meds and food and had people being abusive about how I'm murdering people, spreading covid, by refusing to wear a mask as its been proven by top medics in the news today.

Life is difficult enough for those medically/clinically unable to wear masks without him making it worse - I can have no care, no help and no support because of it. I'm severely depressed but can access no help.

At least I now know why it's ok for people to crowd around having a go at me and blaming me and I was responsible, clearly, for my family member dying as well.

I'm sorry you're struggling. That's outrageous behaviour and must have been very upsetting. I do hope a chink of light appears for you soon.

Almostslimjim · 31/12/2020 13:31

I’m not sure why people are so shocked at the idea that ICUs are full of younger people. Yes many elderly people will die of Covid but generally speaking they decline very quickly and will already be suffering from other serious conditions. They will probably die before they even reach ICU. Younger people - 40s and 50s and so on - are the ones who are needing the oxygen and the ventilators longer term. This is why ICU is filling up. It’s not a case of one bed becoming free and another person needing it. The beds aren’t being freed up at the rate of need.

Yes, this is the case at my hospital. The elderly are declining quickly, go straight to COVID wards on testing positive and rarely get to ICU, either recovering or dying. Its the 40 - 60s that are in my ICU, and many that should be but we don't currently have room for so are receiving care on the COVID wards. Those with COVID who are asymptomatic or up and around but in for other things are remaining on their usual ward until COVID is the primary reason for admission due to the lack of capacity on COVID specific wards. Very few in my ICU don't have CoVID currently.

Emeeno1 · 31/12/2020 13:32

The emotional language response he makes use of is counter-productive.

Those annoyed by it will dig their heels in harder.
Those upset by it will become further entrenched in their anxiety.
Those who like to control will wield it as a weapon.
Those who despair will be pushed further into desperation.

None of this will help us to work together to overcome.

motherrunner · 31/12/2020 13:32

@schoolsarenotsafe

With schools open, with classrooms filled with 30 children and staff, the virus will continue to spread.

Mask wearing is not permitted in most primary schools. What are teachers supposed to do to protect themselves and others?

Mask wearing is also not permitted in secondary schools - only in areas outside of classrooms. But apparently when I’m in front of my 5 classes of 32 the magic 2m will keep me safe.

herecomesthsun · 31/12/2020 13:33

I also think there may be an education issue.

There was an example in the link given of delivery drivers to the hospital not wearing masks. So that might be because of a lack of understanding about how important it is (and possibly process, our local outpatients has entrances very tightly controlled by staff dishing out masks and squirting hand san).

It might also be that delivery drivers on zero hours contracts are dashing to get their quota of jobs done and you can sympathise with that.

Weedsnseeds1 · 31/12/2020 13:34

If you Google "entire family died of COVID19", there's one in New Jersey where 4/7 died, one in Wales where 3 members of same family (who didn't appear to live together from the article) died, one in Russia where a woman and both her parents died. No stories where everyone died, so doesn't seem wiping out of entire families is that widespread. That bit is exaggerated.

Lmnopqrstuvwxyz · 31/12/2020 13:34

Is it weird that I still don't know a single person who has had Covid?! I feel like it's nowhere me!

Lmnopqrstuvwxyz · 31/12/2020 13:36

Sorry...
Is it weird that I still don't know a single person who has had Covid?! I feel like it's no where near me!

motherrunner · 31/12/2020 13:36

@Lmnopqrstuvwxyz

Is it weird that I still don't know a single person who has had Covid?! I feel like it's nowhere me!

Tbh if it wasn’t through my own school I wouldn’t know anyone either. I know of 8 colleagues and countless students but friends and family, no.

Passmeabottlemrjones · 31/12/2020 13:36

Why do I get the feeling this man voted Tory at the last election?

applegreenpetrol · 31/12/2020 13:37

@Pringlespop 'But I thought that’s why furlough was set up? To help those in need that have childcare issues?'

No furlough was set up to help prevent the mass bankruptcy of many many of businesses and the associated unemployment that would cause. If a business is open, and operating, it should not be claiming furlough except for staff they do not require at the current time because trade has been reduced due to the pandemic.

Furlough also costs the employer in real terms e.g. they are liable for pensions, NI, and holiday, that is why it is at their discretion. I am laying people off now rather than furloughing them as I have no funds to pay these additional amounts. It's soul destroying.

lljkk · 31/12/2020 13:41

I don't dispute the factual things the man said. He said things like the department is overwhelmed & his colleagues are demoralised. All that speaks to his lived experience -- fair enough.

I don't celebrate NYE. I hope his message deters those desperate to celebrate NYE with abandon. But don't say that was anything but a very emotional opinion-heavy plea with limited supporting evidence (eg: 50% too mild to even notice they had it, etc.) I hope he's not blaming all his patients & colleagues who caught this because they also did not wear masks/hand sanitise. Else he's saying that everyone who ever got treated for covid has "blood on their hands" too.

The way the chap spoke he implies those doing the 'bad behaviour' are bad people = "have blood on their hands" -- would the bad people even respond to the guilt-tripping? The people who mostly respond will be the already-anxious. So that's encouraging large% of the population who think themselves perfect to resent large% of the population who did the 'bad behaviour': eg., legally visiting the families on the 25th or other lapses. I can't agree with encouraging resentment.

herecomesthsun · 31/12/2020 13:42

@Weedsnseeds1I have not the slightest doubt that these cases happened or are happening (and most likely the families gave permission for anonymised reference to be made to their cases).

On the one hand, it would be counterproductive to make this stuff up, as it would be too easy for someone with an agenda to later disprove.

And on the other hand, with cases stacking as high as they are now, these stories of multiple infections are very plausible. (It may be that families have shared vulnerability factors too).

DishingOutDone · 31/12/2020 13:43

I think its good to see the extreme attitudes on here. I like to see all points of view. Personally I would not have believed any reasonable adult would vilify this man, question his experience and his motives etc., had I not read it on here.