What's the longest you will put up with restrictions?

[Papatron]

I'm just wondering where people think their breaking point will be with the virus restrictions. If the government extends the furlough scheme beyond April and says we all have to stay locked down, will you obey?
If we're still not free in June or July?
Personally I feel like I could just about take another 3 months maximum.

State borders here (in Australia) close with little notice

Speaking of borders, has anyone looked at the arrivals for the UK's major airports today?

The merest glance shows clearly that yet another lockdown is no more than a fruitless pretence - a smokescreen, if you like, for an all too trusting public

It is very easy to say "As long as it takes" on an anonymous message board with a vaccine beginning to be rolled out (add all the caveats you wish about it might not work/take until July 2034 or whatever you like). Nobody will be policing the ALAITs should the restrictions be the same or harder than now say for the next year, or 3 years, or 100 years. Because this is what ALAIT means. There are people in human history who whether through circumstances or choice have lived in a way which would not transgress current UK rules. This was not the choice of the majority of people.
It seems to me people descend on threads like this in order to boost their self esteem by essentially saying they have greater forbearance than others who give an (also hypothetical) end point to their restrictions.

@Cornettoninja yes I agree. The fact that they've made an arse of it though, is partly why compliance is getting worse. All this "fed up" stuff because it wasn't taken seriously and enforced :(.

People do have trouble with the face that both things are true : the pandemic is happening and also we have inept government.

I'm raging while complying. :(

And @Puzzledandpissedoff
I'm also very worried at Boris and co having the ability to effectively do fucking anything. 😓

[quote Cornettoninja]@2020quelhorreur I can only speak for myself but I hate living like this but understand that it’s necessary because it’s bigger than just me. My aim is to get through this as quickly as possible and if that means short term restrictions so be it.

I suspect that there’s a disconnect with peoples definitions of short term. I’m fully expecting for this to be the state of play (waxing and waning seasonally) for at least two years based on previous pandemics. Winter was always going to be a fucker but in context it’s still short term. This has been broadly my expectation since the start of this although it still punches me in the gut every time new levels are implemented. You have no idea how much I long to be proved as over reacting.[/quote]
Do you mean 2 years from the March 2020 beginning of restrictions or an additional 2 years from now? When you say at least, this establishes your expectation of a minimum, but as the thread is looking for a maximum, is there a maximum duration you envisage?

I am pretty much done with it already. It's gone on for such a long time, the "rules" are vague and contradict each other (stay at home, but then open the zoos?!)

Hardly anyone around here is following the rules anymore, our local village is heaving with day visitors.

I am just done with it now. I can probably go to about March before my mental health deteriorates into nothing!

I actually feel safer with restrictions. Have to look for a new place to live soon, baby due next year. Going to be fun .......🙄

Those saying "as long as it takes" or "as long as necessary" - how would you define "necessary". What needs to be achieved for you to be ok with restrictions being lifted? For me it's the majority of vulnerable groups being vaccinated (you are never going to achieve all). Once that's done I am not prepared to tolerate wearing a mask and I will go out to anything I fancy that is open. And I expect stuff to start opening pretty quickly at that stage. So I have been working from home, keeping largely to my household (other than caring responsibilities) and didn't take advantage of eat out to help out. All that stops once the vulnerable are vaccinated.

I think it’s a bit of a pointless question, as what do all those who say they’re “not going to put up with it” think they are going to do?

Go shopping - but shops will still be closed.
Go to the theatre - but theatres all still closed.
Go to pub - but pub still closed.
Go to nightclub - but nightclub still closed.
Go on holiday - but so many rules and restrictions and no fly zones and quarantine orders in place it’s more stressful than staying at home.

Okay, meet up with relatives as much as possible, I get you could do that. But it’s not like you can just suddenly say right I’m not doing lockdown any more. Because if the lockdown is still on, there’s not really h you can do about it is there?

March. If vaccines aren’t working by then then we are all fucked and might as well enjoy ourselves

@countrygirl99

Those saying "as long as it takes" or "as long as necessary" - how would you define "necessary". What needs to be achieved for you to be ok with restrictions being lifted? For me it's the majority of vulnerable groups being vaccinated (you are never going to achieve all). Once that's done I am not prepared to tolerate wearing a mask and I will go out to anything I fancy that is open. And I expect stuff to start opening pretty quickly at that stage. So I have been working from home, keeping largely to my household (other than caring responsibilities) and didn't take advantage of eat out to help out. All that stops once the vulnerable are vaccinated.

The government won't keep restrictions longer than necessary.

The British government won't keep restrictions for longer than they need to, not so sure about the Scottish government that gets measured on health but not the economy.

I’m definitely not going to make my own assessment of the progress - I’m neither a virologist nor an immunologist nor do I have any actuarial or similar skills. I’ll trust the experts. I won’t trust boris or these ministers as far as I could throw them. Luckily we have indépendant experts they are still listening to even if reluctantly and too slowly seemingly.
‘As long as necessary’ includes for me anyway ‘and not longer’. When we stop trusting what medical and scientific experts say I think our country will be in bigger world of pain even than now.

All this "fed up" stuff because it wasn't taken seriously and enforced

Indeed, but then full enforcement would have meant everyone and in the UK that was never going to happen, not least because of effective exemptions for selected groups

Yet another reason, perhaps, why folk are kidding themselves in imagining our ever-changing measures will work

@Puzzledandpissedoff

... the vaccines have to be rolled out efficiently and effectively

Unfortunately "have to be" isn't the same as it actually happening - especially taking into account the mess that's been made of practically everything else

We've all heard Bojo's latest spiel about spring being the time he expects things to improve, but if too many inconvenient questions are asked about vaccine rollout he'll almost certainly tell us another mutation's been found, "but don't worry, our world-beating teams are onto it"

So you actually think the Prime Minister can call up the epidemiologists and tell them he has found a new strain? How will he explain it? "I found it down the back of the sofa" perhaps?

He'll have to fool all the experts in the other countries around the world too as they will want to examine it.

People have some strange ideas of how the world works.

@Outseyeder I meant approximately two years from March 2020.

It’s impossible to put a maximum on it because no one has a crystal ball. I don’t believe current restrictions are realistic long term (2+ years) but I’m hopeful that we will have success with the vaccines and the threat from covid will be reduced. I don’t know what stance I would have now if no progress had been made with the vaccines and feel very fortunate to live in an era that science is advanced enough that it’s a real option to consider.

If I had to speculate I would envisage a future where covid is much more like TB when it was endemic in this country.In an ideal world I would hope the government are considering long term strategies like specialist hospitals (more likely permanent wards) and protocols for localised outbreaks. That’s not based on anything even approaching an expert opinion though.

@onedayinthefuture

And all you as long as it takes sad fucks, what gives you the right to imprison my children any longer. It's criminal.

Maybe get a library card and start reading about societies and laws. A dictionary would be a good start. Look up what criminal means.

@User158340 but what do you, as a voter, consider necessary. Because I think the government's definition will be whatever will get us the most votes.

So you actually think the Prime Minister can call up the epidemiologists and tell them he has found a new strain? How will he explain it? "I found it down the back of the sofa" perhaps?

No I don't think that, though the "down the back of the sofa" metaphor certainly has a track record when it comes to numbers
However what he can do is take something like virus mutation (which is already widely known) and use it to create whatever narrative he wants and at a time of his preference

Since some seem to have forgotten it I'll just link this again ... see in particular the choice of language under "persuasion" on page 1: assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/882722/25-options-for-increasing-adherence-to-social-distancing-measures-22032020.pdf

[quote countrygirl99]@User158340 but what do you, as a voter, consider necessary. Because I think the government's definition will be whatever will get us the most votes.[/quote]
I think it's necessary to see this through over the winter.

The problem will arise in April because Boris has overpromised over what 'normal' will actually be.

I think the reality for most next year will be something like:

Jan and Feb - Tier 4
March-April - Tier 2-3
May-June - Tier 1
July-August Tier 1+
September onwards - hope enough people are vaccinated to avoid the calamity of this winter

Social distancing won't be going anywhere any time soon though, or masks for that matter.

This is unless we get a super quick rollout of the vaccine.

@User158340 you still haven't defined at what point you as a voter think restrictions should be lifted? We still live in a democracy, we still influence decisions and we should not just be floating along on whatever the powers that be decide. We should be telling them what it is we want and what is and isn't acceptable. Not everyone will get 2hat we want but if we don't make our voices heard we might as well live in a dictatorship.

@DrRamsesEmerson

Hospitals are always hammered at this time of year, it would be really interesting to know how bad it is compared with a normal year once you strip out all the staff self-isolating (but not ill) because of Covid.

This. It was reported that 2 million people had swine flu causing hospitals to be at breaking point in 2009 where as the flu outbreak in winter 2018/2019 had hospitals in the U.K. and around the world causing hospitals to over run - including building make shift tents.

On the NHS gov web site there is an excel sheet where you can see how many covid patients in beds there actually are in each individual hospital.

You also have to factor in people that catch covid whilst in hospital. An elderly relative of mine broke her foot on Christmas Eve. She was kept in hospital for an operation which still hasn’t happened. She’s on a ward with covid patients. ( I still cannot believe this) She is getting tested every day but still there is a high chance she will catch it.

I don’t know where my breaking point it. Luckily I can still work but I know friends in the hospitality business who have been financially ruined already and having to sell there house to pay debts. This is the unseen side. If I was in their situation I think I would have snapped a long time ago.

[quote countrygirl99]@User158340 you still haven't defined at what point you as a voter think restrictions should be lifted? We still live in a democracy, we still influence decisions and we should not just be floating along on whatever the powers that be decide. We should be telling them what it is we want and what is and isn't acceptable. Not everyone will get 2hat we want but if we don't make our voices heard we might as well live in a dictatorship.[/quote]
We live in a democracy, but we have to follow the laws of the land, that's the point. We can't just ignore the rules we don't like.

I think the first half of next year we should remain within the tier system (hopefully all tier 1-2 by April or May) before a gradual phasing of restrictions.

The problem with lifting restrictions is it can't just be done overnight. It'll take time to gradually lift them, so you're not just back where you started again because it's younger people often spreading the virus most (children and younger adults) and they won't be getting the virus anytime soon.

We're vaccinated the most vulnerable who have mostly been shut away all year anyway.

[quote countrygirl99]@User158340 you still haven't defined at what point you as a voter think restrictions should be lifted? We still live in a democracy, we still influence decisions and we should not just be floating along on whatever the powers that be decide. We should be telling them what it is we want and what is and isn't acceptable. Not everyone will get 2hat we want but if we don't make our voices heard we might as well live in a dictatorship.[/quote]
@countrygirl99 Well said.

As long as it takes for cases to come down low enough that the NHS can handle it.