There’s no point with primary schools open

[Agoodbriskwalk]

Whatever you think of them being open, the fact is that with thousands of group gatherings of non mask wearing, non socially distanced, non personal distanced, non handwashing people for hours and hours every day in poorly ventilated building, this thing will continue to spread

On top of that, sleepovers and parties and play dates will continue to happen because ‘they’re in school together anyway’. Do you know how often parents say ‘They're in the same bubble’ like it’s a magical force field?

Families with a mix of primary and secondary kids will allow the secondary kids to meet up even if they’re not in school because what’s the point stopping them when the younger kid is exposed to hundreds of families a day anyway? How can they justify its ‘not safe’ to their teens?

Parents will meet up at the school gates twice a day and stand and chat. Some will also meet in their houses, as their kids are friends and sitting together all day anyway so they know that any Covid family 1 has is most likely going to be spread to family 2 anyway.

Parents will do more things, go more places and take more risks because ‘If we’re going to get it from anywhere it will most likely be from school anyway’.

Ditto teachers. And who can blame them? Teachers should have full access to all of society even under lockdown IMO as they’re not being granted safety in any shape or form so should at least be allowed to have their lives.

Employers will expect employees in in a way that they wouldn’t be able to if primaries were off. But schools are open so there will be an expectation of presenteeism in many many workplaces.

Roads will continue to be busy with schools in so people will get a general feeling of ‘business as usual’ and they will carry on cramming themselves into unnecessary shops.

You might disagree with some of the above. I do. But that’s what is going to happen and there will be many deaths as a result.

Pissing around until numbers get so high costs more in every way, just a bit later. More people will die from covid if hospitals turn them away. More people will die from other things too. No one wants schools to shut but they were opened in an unsafe way, only very close contacts were isolated, narrow list of testing symptoms, the schools are open so they may as well mix outside mentality...now we are here.

Yes exactly this.

There could have been a longer half term instead of a lockdown. Private schools had 2 weeks. There could have been an earlier Christmas closure to protect people who mixed at Christmas but they actively threatened legal action against schools that were on their knees. I’m SO SICK of this government taking action in a confused, piecemeal, indecisive and far too late way. Why can’t they just take strong, uniform, decisive and life saving action for once?

Well, in my year 6 class i've seen on fb 3 families at large social gatherings this holiday. 3 of the boys roam around with a mini gang of year 7's. In the last week one girl told me all about the great birthday party and sleepover with all her cousins from 200 miles away she had, and they were indeed spotted about by my TA. Parents here don't tend to pick year 6 up. They all hang around the park to wait for older siblings from the secondary and I can see them all mixing merrily from my classroom window. We were already in tier 4.

I too noticed no mental degradation in the classes mental health on return from either the lockdown or the 2 subsequent isolations we have had due to cases. A loss of concentration span (so much online gaming), an inability to not eat all the time, tiny bladders, and regression in handwriting and manners was about it. They've made good academic progress since returning. It really was the manners and complete lack of patience or ability to concentrate that was the biggest hurdle. The vulnerable children, those with ehcp, fsm or ebd were all in every day anyway.

My own teenage children were different. One thrived being off school and the other was just abit bored. They didn't do quite as much work as they should have because I was in school and left them at home. A situation which will repeat itself. They are farmore worried about me returning to work in a tier 4 area than anything else.

One size is never going to fit all and many of our students much preferred working from home, so after a lifetime of having to conform to the way society teaches it was like things swung their way for a short time.
It's not a black and white issue at all, my older dd has definitely become more withdrawn and less sociable in the last lock down, younger dd loved lock down and accadmically did very well. Spelling!! My phones spell checker doesn't work!

Op I think a collective counter legal action would be perhaps one thing to make them think and or a good journalist story , panorama etc.. With real depictions of classrooms and not these strange sanitised ones with mask wearing dc all sat 2 meters apart

Another one here whose school has not noted any obvious deterioration in mental health. In a (primary) school of 450, there have been perhaps 3 or 4 children who have had "issues," but they were evident long before Covid struck.

I totally agree with you OP. What is the point of closing retail and hospitality but keeping schools open fully? All that results is that many more families will lose their jobs and their homes whilst the virus still circulates freely.

It's madness.

@Agoodbriskwalk

Whatever you think of them being open, the fact is that with thousands of group gatherings of non mask wearing, non socially distanced, non personal distanced, non handwashing people for hours and hours every day in poorly ventilated building, this thing will continue to spread

On top of that, sleepovers and parties and play dates will continue to happen because ‘they’re in school together anyway’. Do you know how often parents say ‘They're in the same bubble’ like it’s a magical force field?

Families with a mix of primary and secondary kids will allow the secondary kids to meet up even if they’re not in school because what’s the point stopping them when the younger kid is exposed to hundreds of families a day anyway? How can they justify its ‘not safe’ to their teens?

Parents will meet up at the school gates twice a day and stand and chat. Some will also meet in their houses, as their kids are friends and sitting together all day anyway so they know that any Covid family 1 has is most likely going to be spread to family 2 anyway.

Parents will do more things, go more places and take more risks because ‘If we’re going to get it from anywhere it will most likely be from school anyway’.

Ditto teachers. And who can blame them? Teachers should have full access to all of society even under lockdown IMO as they’re not being granted safety in any shape or form so should at least be allowed to have their lives.

Employers will expect employees in in a way that they wouldn’t be able to if primaries were off. But schools are open so there will be an expectation of presenteeism in many many workplaces.

Roads will continue to be busy with schools in so people will get a general feeling of ‘business as usual’ and they will carry on cramming themselves into unnecessary shops.

You might disagree with some of the above. I do. But that’s what is going to happen and there will be many deaths as a result.

Could not agree with you more OP. I am outraged by the Government. As usual, they’re utterly in land do an incredibly good impression of not giving a shiny shit about anyone but themselves.

*incompetent and are doing a

I am furious that my older kids' livelihoods/futures have been totally sold down the river for a pie-in-the-sky notion that opening schools up is a good idea.

I teach a hundred or so kids a week. DH teaches around 200.

The only mental health issues we have noticed which have sprung up due to the pandemic are kids worried that they are 'not allowed' to wear masks in the classroom. I always tell them they can in mine.

...Parents here don't tend to pick year 6 up. They all hang around the park to wait for older siblings from the secondary and I can see them all mixing merrily from my classroom window. We were already in tier 4

Shut the schools and this is going to increase!
Parents will be at work, unable to "supervise" DC, leaving them to do their own thing. ... It's catch 22.

Agree with you OP 100% it’s a disaster waiting to happen. My youngest is due to be starting Preschool on Wednesday 30 snotty kids licking toys together what possibly could go wrong! 😬

My son who has SEN but wasn't allowed in as vulnerable. He was 2 years behind his peers and I can tell you that being off school really affected him . He was back for all of last term and his behaviour and ability to progress are still not back to last March. I am CEV but still glad he is going back. We haven't socialised or gone shopping at all so no rule breaking here. His school had no cases last term.
My daughter yr 7 is back on 18th. I'm more worried about that

@Ylvamoon yes but if they shut I can be at home with my kids teaching remotely instead of putting them at risk of being left alone. After the way primary teachers have been treated I am done with worrying about what other idiots do and just want to keep my family safe. Which I can't do when i'm forced into teaching them the way I have to in a tier 4 area. Unsafely.

Food for thought

(I didn't write this, but it makes a lot of sense!)
FROM A CLASSROOM TEACHER

Can someone please help explain this to me as I just do not understand.

1. I could not see my family Christmas Day because mixing with one other household was deemed too dangerous. But on Monday I can mix with up to 100 different households indoors, because if I wash my hands it’s safe.

1. There has been 53,000 more infections since yesterday yet it’s safe for me to go to work, but when there were just 5,000 cases a day in March it wasn’t.

1. I cannot go shopping, visit the doctor or do anything without wearing a mask as the virus spreads so easily, but I can be in a room with 30 others, also not wearing masks, but because it’s inside a school it is apparently Covid secure and the virus knows not to hang around in the air or infect anyone.

1. Younger children don’t catch or pass on the virus but there were 12,000 recorded cases in children aged between 2 and 10 last week and almost 11,000 recorded infections in children aged between 10-14. That’s over 22,000 infected children recorded in the last week and children show less symptoms so don’t get tested as often as adults.

1. The rate per 100,000 around my school is currently 1125 - the UK government put countries on the quarantine list when they reached 100.

1. It’s not safe for parliament to sit next week because of the high virus numbers but it is ok for primary schools to return. Do primary staff, children and their families not matter?

1. SAGE, doctors, scientist in fact almost everyone has said it’s not safe for schools to reopen next week but Gavin and Boris says it is, so they are. They must have got their medical and virology qualifications for somewhere as they are overruling the experts, right?

1. Scotland and Wales have said it’s not safe to open schools but apparently it is in England.

1. The hospitals local to me have declared major incidences or emergencies as they are overwhelmed with cases of Covid so if I do catch it at school I may not get the treatment I need so I could be even more at risk. Yet it’s still ok for me to go to work.

10. There’s lots of talk about child mental health, but no mention of staff mental health and if you raise this point you get slated for being selfish this is despite the fact that it is staff who are more likely to get seriously ill or die.

11. No other sector is expected to work with no protection at all - how are these conditions ok, safe or acceptable just because I work in a school?

12. Why has the government repeatedly refused to publish infection data or death data for school and education staff if there really is no risk to staff?

13. Why do people take to Facebook to constantly complain about people in shops / on buses not wearing masks but these same people are more than happy for school staff to go without this same protection. Even going as far as supporting the fact children and staff should not be wearing masks in schools because it’s bad for children? When in nearly every other European country it is mandatory for all children and staff. Are British children somehow different to other children? If you won’t accept this for yourself, why is it ok for others ?

14. Consistency for children is also vital to their mental health - we are telling children it’s not ok for them to see their family or friends due to the virus it’s too dangerous - but come Monday they can see, mix and play with their friends BUT only in school. Somehow schools are safer than their own homes. Talk about messing up the mental health of a generation - I can’t explain to them how or why it’s safe - can you?

15. Most primary school children need tactile interaction during the course of the day, if they’re upset, had a bump etc - they need that hug, that little rub of the knee - whatever. Also, for the good times - the ‘well dones’ ‘I’m proud of you’ etc. The government keep banging on, ad nauseum, about keeping schools open due to children’s mental health, but are they not jeopardising it by denying such interactions? We cannot safely interact with them in such a way, given the new variant! Children at home could be with their parents, having these interactions, safely.

Primary staff are the sacrificial lambs for the sake of propping up the economy with cheap childcare.

I totally agree op.We should be in full lockdown right now with all education settings close.I predict within a week or so when numbers are still sky high (which they will be without a proper lockdown) boris will do his famous u turn and do a lockdown anyway.

@phlebasconsidered

Ylvamoon yes but if they shut I can be at home with my kids teaching remotely instead of putting them at risk of being left alone. After the way primary teachers have been treated I am done with worrying about what other idiots do and just want to keep my family safe. Which I can't do when i'm forced into teaching them the way I have to in a tier 4 area. Unsafely.

Thanks for the "I'm all right Jack" ... some parents don't have that choice. It's food on the table or kids being cared for during the day. (I'm glad the government does recognise this and has left primary schools open- for now. )

MrsSalvador:
The point 2 in the list isn't comparing like with like - in March they only recorded cases that were serious enough to have got to hospital, the 50k is spread over several days of Christmas and includes people with a minor loss of smell only and asymptomatic cases who tested due to being a close contact of someone with symptoms. The estimate is that in March there were around 100k cases a day, somewhere between double or three times as many as we have now (depending how many of the current cases you think we are catching with tests).
Point 5: 100 was the threshold for concern about an area when most places had rates well below 50, so it was more than double the norm. Now the norm is a few hundred, so 1000-odd is the new equivalent for showing when one place has it particularly out of control at that moment. The government are concerned with the direction and speed of change in cases as well (if not more) than the total numbers, as that shows them where measures aren't working and R is rising - if r is falling then things are getting better even if there are still a lot of people getting sick.

Had a walk in the park earlier and saw loads of groups all together and heard one large group discussing what take away they would all be having later.
Another large group of about 10 adults and about 8 kids all sitting on or around a picnic bench havjng a caje and singing hapoy birthday.
I thought to myself.. They will be in some poor teachers class on Monday 😩

Thanks for the "I'm all right Jack" ... some parents don't have that choice. It's food on the table or kids being cared for during the day. (I'm glad the government does recognise this and has left primary schools open- for now

Completely agree but thats an issue for the govt to solve not teachers.

They have given millions to businesses and for furlough and support for self employed so they need to give the same support to parents who cannot work when schools are closed.

Completely agree but thats an issue for the govt to solve not teachers.

This!

Also, (and it is a separate statement and not one Ledkr has made) I am suprised at the number of parents that want to make the government aware they can not care for their children’s basic needs without the governments intervention, I am not suprised the government are supporting the whole idea, they decided before the pandemic that if you are a single parent you can’t adequately provide for your child and they need to be in state care for a greater proportion of time to protect them from your inadequacy. But now it seems to apply to the majority and parents are wholeheartedly embracing it.

I agree, OP. My DD is in year 6 but in a middle school, and I've had an email today saying they e received clarification from the D of E saying years 5 and 6 can start back on Tuesday and attendance is compulsory - after originally saying before Christmas they would start back on the 11th. I'm now really worried with the way it's spreading at the moment.

God i cried last night worrying about going in on Tuesday (inset mon) hearing all the warnings about it spreading so fast now and hearing the figures and now today i hear that my lovely god mother is being ventilated for cv.
I worked from home since march dh is police so working more than ever, i didn't take a key worker space at school to minimise risk so appreciate the issues for home schooling whilst working.
I feel almost inevitably that i will catch it at school and am just praying that being 54, a bit chubby and having had lots of health issues over the past will not mean i'm one of the unlucky ones.
Its so sad that we have to think like this.
I could quit really but dont want to dump my colleagues in it or the kids and families Im supposed to be supporting .

SAGE say the same OP.