Sending London patients to Yorkshire

[DeRigueurMortis]

It's been reported that due to capacity issues in London there is a proposal to send patients to Yorkshire.

London has more beds per capita than anywhere else in the country.

The nightingales have been dismantled.

In Yorkshire the rates have been high but (depending on north/south/east/west) brought into control though harsh lockdown. Those in tier 2 have been buggered by being inundated by Covid tourism and will be tier 3/4.

So Yorkshire is on the verge of it's own disaster with less beds per person than London and being overwhelmed by London cases before the local community can get a bed in their hospital.

Is it right that this should happen?

I have been wondering about this myself. Where are people from Yorkshire supposed to go if all the hospitals are full of people from London? But hey, we're just Northerners so who cares?

now it's out of control in London it seems they want to inflict their troubles on us and when it does, we'll be left high and dry with a shortage of beds and tier 4/5 restrictions because London is given favourable treatment yet again.

Who wants to inflict London’s troubles on you? The ICU drs making these decisions? They’ve got slightly more important things on their mind, and wouldn’t be sending patients hours away on a whim to piss off northerners. Get a grip. London isn’t getting special treatment, this would happen in any area.

(And I’m not from London)

The NHS has sent patients to France before for surgeries when waiting lists here hot too long (afraid I can't remember what it was, but remember hearing about it).

And I was very surprised to hear about Ireland having to help out as we're always told that our NHS is a superior service to most of the EU (with the exception of Germany, Switzerland and maybe some of the Nordic countries). France has a better health system. The Netherlands also has a good healthcare system. Both France and NL have problems, but you also pay extra for it via compulsory insurance. In NL it's a minimum of about £150 per person per month. Belgium has a similar system, I think, to the French. Basic point is that while the NHS has been underfunded, those systems have received cash, even if they could do with more.

For Covid, Holland transferred ICU patients to Germany in the first wave. In this wave they're not coming over because Germany has too many cases itself. Don't know what the Dutch are now doing.

@Skipsurvey

nobody wants to have to take patients so far away, but there is a bed available, there is transport to take people. it is a sensible life saving reaction.

I agree. If north and south of Ireland who are actually divided can cooperate, then Yorkshire and elsewhere can help London out surely? The problem as I see it is that there is a lot of resentment of Londoners for some reason. Maybe because of the better investment and job availability? I'm sure they certainly don't envy our house prices!

*£150 per adult, kids are free.

i hope the staff working in the yorkshire hospitals are not as bigoted as some posters

And as far as I know, London voted for Labour in the most part in the last election. It was those outside of London who swung massively Conservative. Now, my memory isn't the best, so please correct me if I'm wrong there.

There were a few high-profile 'red wall' swings but plenty of northern constituencies remained Labour.

I'm not trying to be harsh. If the only other alternative is people dying then of course they need to be sent up North. It's just annoying that it has come to this. If more had been done to help the NHS over the years then London hospitals would probably be coping. But instead the North gets screwed over again. (Please no comments about how the North voted Tory. We didn't. There were a few previously labour areas that voted Conservative but on the whole, more Southern areas voted Tory)

That's interesting Foxglovii. Was there uproar at the time about the Dutch covid patients being treated in Germany?

Covid is not London's trouble FFS.

I know the government want to divide us all up but stop falling for it.

Families with dead relatives in London are as distraught as families with dead relatives in the North. The bottom line is there will be much higher deaths everywhere due to government failure.

The NHS should have enough capacity for the nation's needs. It has been deliberately cut over the last ten years. That is where the anger should be directed.

there are so many less cases in Yorkshire now. the virus has come south.
The southeast, apart from london, got off easier up until now.

London people pay taxes that fund public services in Yorkshire, so, yes.

i should imagine the Germans were proud to help the dutch.

They haven't just asked Yorkshire, contingency plans have swung into place and they'll be contacting hospitals around the country to assess and ask. But Yorkshire stokes both fear (because it's far away omg must be bad), and exasperates the north/south divide.

the covid rate per 100k in London is 10 times that of other parts of England/Scotland at the moment.

Its high but by nowhere near that much in the rest of the country. Parts of Yorkshire are still at 400 even 500 per 100k atm

There's a thread on here asking people what the rate is in their areas. Some parts of London have over 1000/100k whereas other areas have figures in double digits.

This is was what West Yorks and Grt Manc were just a few weeks ago and had been sustained. The city of Hull was still about 800 per 100k only a couple of weeks ago . Its gone down now but our hospitals are still in crisis. We are still being told only to use hospital for emergencies.

London is constantly trying to 'export' for want of a better word, its needs. A very good example is housing. Councils are trying to relocate Londoners in need of housing to areas in the North of England

Its already been happening for years. It's because rents, and so housing benefit, is lower up here. It has put huge strain on social housing. It isn't just London that's overcrowded. West Yorkshire, like Greater Manchester, is densley populated. 10 million people live in the M62 area of the North of England

But still, the NHS should be available to all from what ever part of the country. The problem is the numbers can change so quickly and especially with this new strain. Tomorrow West and South Yorkshire will probably be in tier 4, from tier 3

Those in the EU with neighbouring countries are lucky enough to be able to help each other out. I wish there was more cooperation here - not this anger at Londoners. I'm sure someone from Greenwich doesn't suddenly want to wake up with a crowd around them in Yorkshire! Lol. Coming out of a coma, you can be delusional from all the drugs, so imagine the confusion waking up in a different hospital!!

Ireland has fees attached to it's services. It is not free at point of delivery.
Wow this thread. I thought it would be about how serious and worrying the situation must be to have to transfer patients so far. Not a NIMBY type Op and petty squabbling about North South divides.
We have an NHS and it has always been a case of going to where the service or free bed is. If beds in Yorkshire fill up I am sure patients 2ill be moved to where there are free beds.

Absolutely terrifying that it's got to this, and also a good way to help spread the virus far and wide.
No issue with the NHS pulling out all the stops to get people the care they need, this just seems a really inefficient way :(

Patients are transferred out of area all the time, if ICU beds in North Yorkshire were full would you say “no thanks” if the specialist caring for you/a relative had secured a suitable bed elsewhere?

What about ECMO? Should only the people who happen to live very close to the very small number of available ECMO beds be considered suitable candidates?

If you had an ill child would you refuse treatment because they were referred to an out of area childrens hospital such as Birmingham, Alder hey or Great Ormond Street if Sheffield childrens hospital couldn’t provide suitable specialist treatment?

my local hospital sends to london if needed, quite terrifying for me that london is supposedly full

Skipsurvey - it's not just supposedly. My DM was in hospital a few days ago and they wanted to admit her (the doctors). However, they came back and told her that there were NO beds, so sent her home, with a home care package! London hospital.

The areas are irrelevant. If the situation were reversed and hospitals in Yorkshire were full, those patients would be sent elsewhere

Hospitals in Yorkshire are full, but they (London) must have requested "Yorkshire" for a reason. Yorkshire does have some very large hospitals, maybe its something to do with that, with space or something? Or the transport infrastructure (M62 and M1)

@StealthPolarBear

Absolutely terrifying that it's got to this, and also a good way to help spread the virus far and wide. No issue with the NHS pulling out all the stops to get people the care they need, this just seems a really inefficient way :(

Agree - I think this thread misses the point: the virus is out of control and hospitals are in some areas full.

We are all in the shit now.

Our government has allowed, and at times encouraged, the virus to get out of control.

The Nightingale hospitals were a big PR stunt - we have all been lied to.

What a sad world we live in that people would RESERVE beds for locals rather than keep others alive. Never mind that London often takes the overflow for a large swathe of the country.

London has been under tier 4 for weeks and is suffering, not because the rules aren't being followed but because people do live in close proximity, kids travel to school by public transport and shops are more crowded.

But yeah, no-one should be sent outside the M25 for medical help.

I doubt the ICU doctors specifically declared 'I'm sending this patient to Yorkshire'. They must have beds available if they're being transferred there.