Spain to create a register of those who refuse the vaccine

[CrunchyCarrot]

I am certain there are those here who will applaud this, but I do not.

Firstly, the vaccine in Spain will not be mandatory, yet authorities will still record those who refuse to have the vaccine, and worse still, will share this register with other EU countries. They promise the data will be held 'safely'. How often have we heard that assurance only to find that at a later date, the database has been hacked and the contents are being sold on the Dark Web?

Also, there's just the question why do they need to do this? Where does it end, will other jabs be added in over time? Plus there's no discussion about why people have refused, some of us will have done so for very good health reasons. I find this a disturbing development.

There are many sources online for this, not just the BBC.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55471282

There will be a record of people who have taken the jab. By default this is going to make it identifiable if you haven't had it.
I think if you are refusing on health reasons (rather than conspiracy Bill Gates wants to micro chip me) it would be good to have that recorded

How do you suggest they go about vaccinating everybody who needs it? You need to go through the health lists and contact everyone eligible and get them vaccinated. If someone says “no thanks I’d rather not” then your alternatives are a) note on the register that they have refused or b) continue to waste everyone’s time contacting them repeatedly and having them refuse until the end of time. There is no way of doing this without having a data point for everyone in the country with the status Vaccinated once/Vaccinated twice/Refused/Medically unsuitable (permanent)/Medically unsuitable (temporary)

The interesting thing is the bit about sharing the information with other countries - the implications of the vaccine for travel are something which is still very unclear, because we haven’t got a definitive answer on transmission prevention.

I think recording that you have had it seems far less 'sinister' - since it makes sense as in time there'll be several vaccines available and it would be useful to know which ones people have had (they may forget!) or whether they've had both doses. For that, I can see a reason.

For simply recording one has not had it, I find that disturbing. Probably because of the possibility that in time other information could be added to that list. I am maybe over-thinking things here, but I do feel it's a distinct possibility.

This information will be used in a variety of ways.
I wouldn't be surprised if it will have an effect on things like freedom of movement, insurance, school attendance etc. So taking the vaccine won't be mandatory but there will be consequences for refusal.

We record if people refuse the flu vaccine so will probably do the same for coronavirus if people say no. Really it is so we don't keep asking them.

How does this differ from the NHS holding your medical records?

@Musicaltheatremum

We record if people refuse the flu vaccine so will probably do the same for coronavirus if people say no. Really it is so we don't keep asking them.

But we don't give this data to the rest of Europe, do we. That's the real concern.

How does this differ from the NHS holding your medical records?

As far as I'm aware, your medical records aren't shared with the rest of Europe.

It makes sense for them to share the data with the EU, given the proximity of the countries.

I’ve been told to decline the vaccine as we’re TTC, and that will be recorded on my NHS record - as it is if you decline the flu vaccine. This is no different.

I read the article on the bbc and was a bit

However I does totally make sense, not sure how well the reasoning has translated into English, but from what I understand it’s so anyone who hasn’t had it can’t say they wasn’t offered, and the government can’t be held accountable

“ He added: "People who are offered a therapy that they refuse for any reason, it will be noted in the register... that there is no error in the system, not to have given this person the possibility of being vaccinated."”

That’s the quote that makes me think it’s to protect the government from claims someone hasn’t been given the choice

I literally do not understand why people worry so much about data. The world can have mine for all I care. I’ve got nothing to hide or worry about. My life is incredibly mundane (& I love that). If Spain want to know I’ve not had a vaccine then fair play. Those not able to have it on medical grounds is fine. It’ll simply be recorded as such. I’m all for vaccine passports personally, for all those able to have one. It’s the only way out this mess if people still want a holiday to Tenerife.

@PTW1234

“ He added: "People who are offered a therapy that they refuse for any reason, it will be noted in the register... that there is no error in the system, not to have given this person the possibility of being vaccinated."”

That’s the quote that makes me think it’s to protect the government from claims someone hasn’t been given the choice

Interesting take on it.

Well Spain is part of the EU with very porous borders so makes sense they might share that information if relevant.

I really can’t imagine their being vaccine passports in the developed world, as enough people likely take the vaccine for heard immunity to be effective.

In developing countries that don’t have the finances and infrastructure to mass vaccinate I think you will need proof of vaccination for entry, but similar to the ones we have now

I agree it's a step towards creating 2nd class citizens, but more likely a simple programme of coercion.

I'm going to try to refuse the C19 vaccine but I suspect I'll have to get it to do something ordinary like take an air plane flight or travel to some specific country. Many scientists reckon the C19 vaccine will require regular boosters, so I wonder if these registries will flag up people with 'expired' vaccination certificates. At moment that seems too much effort, but maybe not in long run.

Once the principle is established in Europe to require vaccination certificates, will EU countries start demanding proof of vaccination (or wild infection) with measles or influenza, etc.

Lots of people will say some countries already require vaccination certificates to enter so all this is fine... but it hasn't been a mass global thing especially not for respiratory or airborne diseases in Europe in recent years. Would be a big change in policy, and public priorities.

@HandlebarLadyTash

There will be a record of people who have taken the jab. By default this is going to make it identifiable if you haven't had it. I think if you are refusing on health reasons (rather than conspiracy Bill Gates wants to micro chip me) it would be good to have that recorded

Such an unfair comment. I dont want the vaccine, not because I think Bill Gates is going to microchip me or any other conspiracy theory. It is a personal choice and I'm not being selfish for not wanting to pump a drug into my body.

Not all anti-vaxers are conspiracy theorists. Do what you want with your body but don't label those who don't agree as something they aren't.

I literally do not understand why people worry so much about data.

Because criminals can use it for nefarious purposes. Are you happy with that?

www.f-secure.com/gb-en/home/articles/why-do-hackers-want-your-personal-information

www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2019/09/11/how-do-criminals-use-stolen-data/

@CrunchyCarrot

I think recording that you have had it seems far less 'sinister' - since it makes sense as in time there'll be several vaccines available and it would be useful to know which ones people have had (they may forget!) or whether they've had both doses. For that, I can see a reason.

For simply recording one has not had it, I find that disturbing. Probably because of the possibility that in time other information could be added to that list. I am maybe over-thinking things here, but I do feel it's a distinct possibility.

You absolutely need to be able to distinguish between people who you haven’t got round to vaccinating yet and people who’ve been offered the vaccine but refused (or been found to be medically unsuitable). How else would you do it?

‘I literally do not understand why people worry so much about data. The world can have mine for all I care. I’ve got nothing to hide or worry about.’
It’s not just about your individual data though. It’s about all of our data as a collective. Do you always trust that elected officials have our best interests at heart? Everyone is in agreement that authoritarian goverments like China abuse people’s privacy and data to control the population and stamp out dissent. Well, you and plenty of others giving their data over freely makes our society as a whole more vulnerable to these types of authoritarian goverments. It may not happen now in this country but could easily occur in another generation. Because once you give us the right to privacy, there’s never a negotiation about getting it back. This is why people care about personal data and you should too.

*up

I honestly don't think that this vaccine is the miracle you're all hoping for . Like a typical flu jab it might offer some protection against one or two strains but you can still get ill . Some people will have better immunity than others

Interesting about declining though - I and DH declined the flu vaccine from GP's, but that's because we had already had it privately. Does that mean our records are therefore inaccurate?

@MoirasRoses my life is mundane too, nothing to hide.
I have a smartphone, boots card, tesco clubcard, facebook I'm already very trackable.
Some countrys already require certain vaccinations before you travel, having the COVID vaccine could easily be a requirement before entrance.

@MellowYellow101 didn't mean to offend I believe 'your body your choice'
I should have left it as not vaccined on medical grounds / not vaccined other.