Spain to create a register of those who refuse the vaccine

[CrunchyCarrot]

I am certain there are those here who will applaud this, but I do not.

Firstly, the vaccine in Spain will not be mandatory, yet authorities will still record those who refuse to have the vaccine, and worse still, will share this register with other EU countries. They promise the data will be held 'safely'. How often have we heard that assurance only to find that at a later date, the database has been hacked and the contents are being sold on the Dark Web?

Also, there's just the question why do they need to do this? Where does it end, will other jabs be added in over time? Plus there's no discussion about why people have refused, some of us will have done so for very good health reasons. I find this a disturbing development.

There are many sources online for this, not just the BBC.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55471282

@BigWoollyJumpers

Interesting about declining though - I and DH declined the flu vaccine from GP's, but that's because we had already had it privately. Does that mean our records are therefore inaccurate?

I'd put money on your records not being accurate, actually. Mine are not, twice I've been to A&E and they've thought I was about 13 yrs older than I am!

I think recording that you have had it seems far less 'sinister'

It's exactly the same.

Regardless of the data set, you can derive who has or hasn't been vaccinated by specific logic in a simple query.

Who cares, it’s up to Spain. To be honest I don’t care if they do the same here.

Personally I'm more uncomfortable with the Government giving away NHS data (so yours presumably OP) to companies like Amazon:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/dec/08/nhs-gives-amazon-free-use-of-health-data-under-alexa-advice-deal?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

This is just one example: as the NHS has the health data of every person in the country, many from birth, these datasets are extremely valuable and Amazon is not the only company to barter tech for data.

[quote HandlebarLadyTash]@MellowYellow101 didn't mean to offend I believe 'your body your choice'
I should have left it as not vaccined on medical grounds / not vaccined other.[/quote]
All good 👍 peace and love!

@ginandtonicformeplease

Personally I'm more uncomfortable with the Government giving away NHS data (so yours presumably OP) to companies like Amazon:

[[https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/dec/08/nhs-gives-amazon-free-use-of-health-data-under-alexa-advice-deal?CMP=Share]]iOSAppp_Other

This is just one example: as the NHS has the health data of every person in the country, many from birth, these datasets are extremely valuable and Amazon is not the only company to barter tech for data.

That's terrifying! Although the article does state that it 'excludes patient data'.

But yes, agree that our data is incredibly valuable.

Not everyone refusing is anti vax, doing to because of conspiracy theory, health reasons, or being bonkers - I won't be having it... yet. I reserve the right to not have it yet, and not be treated like a second class citizen.

@lyinginthegutterstaringatstars

I honestly don't think that this vaccine is the miracle you're all hoping for . Like a typical flu jab it might offer some protection against one or two strains but you can still get ill . Some people will have better immunity than others

This 100%

They will have a record of who has had it so why not the other way round too?

Maybe those refusing won’t be able to travel, go to large events etc. Maybe it’s to do with healthcare as refusing the vaccine presumably means a higher risk of needing care if they catch the virus.

@lyinginthegutterstaringatstars

I honestly don't think that this vaccine is the miracle you're all hoping for

I hope these vaccines which have gone through a short period of trial with a limited number and nature of volunteers (as Covid was simply not here before) are safe and effective for those who want to receive them

But this attempt from a government to play the totalitarian game and corner/coerce their citizens in this way is completely unacceptable

I thik it is likely to come back to haunt them once mass vaccination starts and side effects (immediate or delayed onset) start to appear

@PTW1234

That’s the quote that makes me think it’s to protect the government from claims someone hasn’t been given the choice

But if this is the case, why the need to share the register with the rest of Europe?

Totally sinister and outright bullying by the State as @CrunchyCarrot has said

Expect protests, human rights claims, and all the rest. It is unlikely to go ahead in my opinion

Recording on someone's medical records that it has been offered snd refused is one thing. Compiling a list and sharing with other countries is appalling. I hope it's lousy journalism and not correct.

@lyinginthegutterstaringatstars

I honestly don't think that this vaccine is the miracle you're all hoping for . Like a typical flu jab it might offer some protection against one or two strains but you can still get ill . Some people will have better immunity than others

Did you read the bit about the Pfizer vaccine offering - what was it, 94 or 95% protection? Much better than the flu jab.

Coronaviruses also mutate much slower than influenza. The BionTech team are on record as saying that if any of the emerging mutations do not respond as well to their vaccine, they can tweak it and get a new one out within six weeks.

As yet, we don’t know how long immunity lasts, thats true. But, you know - not enough time has passed. Fortunately there are all those trial participants 6 months ahead of the general public, who are still being monitored to see if their immunity shows sign of waning.

And again, yes, some people will have better immunity than others. That’s why widespread vaccination is so important - the more people who are immune, the fewer are susceptible, and therefore the harder it is for the virus to spread. That protects the unvaccinated, and those who have been vaccinated but not developed immunity.

@PuzzledObserver

That protects the unvaccinated, and those who have been vaccinated but not developed immunity

These vaccines have not yet been proved to prevent transmission

And even if they had, each of us should be allowed to decide over our own body when it comes to medical treatment

So what? It is Spain's business and nothing to do with us (as a non-EU country). We can't stop them.

[quote trulydelicious]@PuzzledObserver

That protects the unvaccinated, and those who have been vaccinated but not developed immunity

These vaccines have not yet been proved to prevent transmission

And even if they had, each of us should be allowed to decide over our own body when it comes to medical treatment[/quote]
I concede that it is as yet unproven that the vaccines present transmission. The scientists who developed them think they are highly likely to, but of course they don’t have proof yet.

Even if they do not, it would still be better for all of us if many people are vaccinated, because fewer will become seriously ill, leaving more hospital capacity for everything else.

Where did I say vaccination should be compulsory? That’s right, I didn’t. I believe widespread vaccination is the way out of this, but it must be by consent.

Every country will have a record of everyone who has the vaccine. So by default they have a record of everyone who hasn't.

Not rocket science is it?

NHSEngland doesn't share or even keep patient records like that...

the patient registers are very very decentralised in terms of identifiable information. NHS-England couldn't come up with a list of everyone in Engalnd individually so therefore couldn't come up with a global list of the not-vaccinated. The actual identifiable records tend to be held only at GP surgeries -- and some people are not registered at any surgery while others may be listed at multiple surgeries (records not properly updated).

@ragged

NHSEngland doesn't share or even keep patient records like that...

the patient registers are very very decentralised in terms of identifiable information. NHS-England couldn't come up with a list of everyone in Engalnd individually so therefore couldn't come up with a global list of the not-vaccinated. The actual identifiable records tend to be held only at GP surgeries -- and some people are not registered at any surgery while others may be listed at multiple surgeries (records not properly updated).

That's what I thought - the information in this country is very disjointed.

When we get it, it will be recorded in our medical notes, of course.
Keeping a list of who had it offered, and rejected, will prove that they had the option, and avoid keep sending reminders?
Also, I see it normal to share with other EU countries, as for the free movement, and the current situation.

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss

They will have a record of who has had it so why not the other way round too

One thing is to keep a record of who has not had it but using the word refuse is more akin to a threat and hence unsettling

And they also will keep an eye of anyone vaccinated, and then getting symptoms.
For the efficiency of the vaccine in the larger population.
Having a list of unvaccinated will be handy for that too. Most likeky, it will be shirter at some point.

Well maybe you should lobby the NHS to use the word “declined” instead trulydelicious. I suspect that the Spanish won’t use the word “refuse”, what with it being in the wrong language.

But you absolutely do need to keep a record of people who have not had the vaccine but require no further chasing, and why.

@CrunchyCarrot

How does this differ from the NHS holding your medical records?

As far as I'm aware, your medical records aren't shared with the rest of Europe.

The last time I checked, my piles aren’t a matter of international concern.

Who on the Dark Web is going to interested in the list of the unvaccinated? The Covid Coughagram service?