Friend said DH is abusing furlough

[amy198820]

DH been on furlough from 2 jobs since March (one full time job and one part time job he does one evening a week). He has been back to work on and off since the summer and is now on the flexi furlough scheme and both jobs have topped his pay to 100%. Since the tier 4 announcement he has been put back on furlough completely.

As tier 4 is looking like it will continue through Jan/Feb, and so unlikely he will be going back anytime soon DH had applied for another job to keep him busy rather than sit at home. DH found out before Christmas he has got the job and he has made this new employer aware that this job will just be a fill in whilst he is on furlough and the employer has accepted this and are happy to take him on. (its a friend of a friend type thing)

Spoke with my friend and earlier and told her about DH's new temporary position explaining that its better than him sitting at home all day /gives him something to do until all this passes etc. My friend took umbrage with this and said that we are abusing the system and that this isnt what the scheme was designed for. I didn't really know what to say and so said sorry she was offended and would speak to her later on.

For background before anyone says anything, I was not being insensitive, my friend has not suffered financially due to COVID as she has been working from home continuously throughout.

I want to call my friend back soon as to not let the bad feeling grow. How would you suggest I approach this? I do not think we are doing anything wrong, just trying to get through this pandemic and doing the best for our family as would anyone else.

@mo@MostlyAmbridgeandcoffee I'm afraid you are incorrect. It's actually specifically allowed subject to agreement with the current employer.

Is he on the payroll and paying tax at the new temporary job OP?

yes, but as on furlough there is a possibility that he will be made redundant, therefore we are making hay whilst the sun shines (or whatever the phrase is)

That's understandable, although plenty who are working also worry about being made redundant or losing their job. Perhaps it's just the way I read it, but your initial post made it sound as though your husband had got the job due to boredom rather than money worries.

So - he's getting 100% of his wages from two jobs in a combination of furlough and employer top-up, and he's taking on a third job?

Yes - he's milking it.

People who are saying he has taken the job from someone who is more in need and hence it is immoral... I understand that in theory... but that's not how it actually works, is it?

Jobs don't go to people who are "in the most need". They go to the person who is the best qualified for the job and who passes the interview and application process.

There is nothing to say that whoever else would have got the job instead of him had he not applied would have been more in need of money than he is. And the fact that he has got this extra job also doens't mean that he is NOT in need of money. You can be on 100% pay and still be struggling financially.

With the reality of this being the way it is, I don't see that he has done anything wrong, and he certainly hasn't done anything illegal.

the word GREED comes to mind !

What your DH is doing is allowed. But if he would not want to juggle all 3 jobs in normal times then he is depriving someone else of a job. How many hours would he be working if he was working all 3 jobs and there was zero furlough?

He is going nothing wrong. It is totally within the scheme. I'd ignore the friend. I'd say to her that there's every chance that he may end up being made redundant and he needs to prepare for that. After all, there are no guarantees.

I took on another job whilst furloughed over the spring/summer so I was receiving 80% of my wages whilst also being paid for working a new part-time job.

DH was on 80% furlough as well though so it really just made up for our lost income.

I've WFH the whole way through so, like your friend, I haven't been 'affected' by losing my job or put on furlough. However, I took a 10% pay cut - as did the rest of the company - and I've had the grand total of 4 days annual leave this year. I'd bloody love to be paid 100% of my normal salary for doing nothing for a few weeks. If I was your friend I'd be pissed off too. If you're in this very fortunate position then do whatever you think is best for you and your family but have the grace to keep quiet about it!

Legally - ok though it shouldn't be
Morally - shabby as fuck

@Baileysoncereal

It’s weird people are so worried about that job or money that could be going to someone else

But I bet some of you work overtime - that could be another job for someone else if enough people are doing that regularly
I bet some of you don’t ‘need’ as much money as you make, maybe you could be PT, or job share? Or just have DP/DH/DW work, because one income would be enough for you all to get by, the other job could go to someone else couldn’t it?

Many people don’t need stat mat pay to afford to live. Many people don’t need various benefits they may get.
Some of you don’t need the tax break you may get for being married.
Some of you will arrange your taxes so they’re not illegal, but certainly save you a bit of money.
Do you need your company car? Or could that money give the more jnr staff members a bit more of a wage?

There are so many things that could be interpreted as you rinsing the system, or getting money you don’t ‘need’ or taking things away from people who ‘really need it’

I’m not sure why any of you get to decide what those things are and who gets them.

Couldn't agree more, some of the moral grandstanding on this thread is unbelievable.

@Dogsandbabies

You came here to ask if your friend is correct. We all told you she is correct and that taking a government payout when earning a wage is morally wrong. Yet you still try to defend your behaviour. Boggles the mind!

No, in fact we didn't all say that at all

@jacks11

If you can do this, legally, then the taxpayer should not be contributing to the wage- why on earth is the government paying the wages of people who can then go and earn another wage. If it is legal then it should not be. And it is completely immoral. The government are borrowing a fortune to fund these schemes- we’ll be paying this back for years, possibly a couple of generations. There will be tax rises and possibly public service cuts, public sector pay will be frozen (again) for a long time and so on to pay for this. If you get another job, then the government should not be paying your furlough pay as you don’t need it.

My guess would be that its too burdensome and costly to facilitate a system that stops paying if you have another income?

@MindatWork

Is he on the payroll and paying tax at the new temporary job OP?

yes and on a 0T Tax code

@AaronPurr

yes, but as on furlough there is a possibility that he will be made redundant, therefore we are making hay whilst the sun shines (or whatever the phrase is)

That's understandable, although plenty who are working also worry about being made redundant or losing their job. Perhaps it's just the way I read it, but your initial post made it sound as though your husband had got the job due to boredom rather than money worries.

It can be both can't it?

I’m wondering if everyone saying it is legal so he should do it, feel the same about companies legally minimising the tax they pay in the U.K.?

The legislation sadly allows people to get their furlough money plus take a full time job even at double the original pay! I just hope I a tax payer with no furlough or self employed help will not be paying for this next year. Some people are raking it in currently.

However check employment contracts as some will forbid your taking that second job - it all depends what the contract says.

@MintyMabel

I’m wondering if everyone saying it is legal so he should do it, feel the same about companies legally minimising the tax they pay in the U.K.?

He's paying more tax the more jobs he has. You're comparing apples and oranges.

@Baileysoncereal Your argument is ridiculous, you’re comparing apples and oranges.

Overtime doesn’t come from public funds. Benefits are means tested, and in any case thousands each year don’t apply for them despite being eligible. If furlough was means tested op’s dh would almost certainly not qualify.

In the grand scheme of things, it’s a drop in the ocean given the sheer millions that have been mis-spent over the last year, it rankles but this is down to government policy.

@amy198820 should people receiving JSA continue receiving them after they get a job because its very expensive to facilitate that. That is an argument for UBI, but not everyone agrees with that.

I am very envious that your DH can get 2 salaries for doing 1 job due to the pandemic, i wish my DH could do the same (he would literally be earning 6 figures if he was in your DH's circumstances) but we aren't so lucky. I don't get why the taxpayer is paying for this though.

[quote hopingforonlychild]@amy198820 should people receiving JSA continue receiving them after they get a job because its very expensive to facilitate that. That is an argument for UBI, but not everyone agrees with that.

I am very envious that your DH can get 2 salaries for doing 1 job due to the pandemic, i wish my DH could do the same (he would literally be earning 6 figures if he was in your DH's circumstances) but we aren't so lucky. I don't get why the taxpayer is paying for this though.[/quote]
yes true about JSA, but the furlough scheme is an emergency, temporary scheme. I doubt they had the resources to facilitate complex terms of the scheme given the promptness of the rollout.

Op your now saying your dh took on this work now as you don't know if dh will loose his job in the future, and that's a very valid point .
But you didn't say that in your op you said it would give him something to do implying it's nothing to do with finances . You even made it clear his furlough pay was topped up to 100%.
Furlough threads have been heavily skated mainly by people that have not been furlough some jealousy perhaps.
If you said this to your friend no wonder she wasn't happy if it was explained that you need the money or your worried about the possibility dh may loose his job soon she may have understood but you simply explained that it was because he was bored .
You must get that would irk many as so many people go to work purely to pay the rent/mortgage put food on the table not because they are bored .

JSA is hardly comparable to a full salary or two.
£58/75 pw if working less than 16 hrs pw or not working at all.
Absolutely no comparison to a man with 3 wages coming in!!

Well some people are definite winners from Coronavirus aren't they?