Is this to protect the NHS?

[suitsnot]

I assume this has been discussed before. I’ve not checked all the posts.

Does anyone have a clear answer on why this virus is taking precedence over quite literally every other illness and destroying the economy simultaneously? I don’t mean to sound facetious. Is it simply that the NHS will collapse if we don’t manage it? I can sort of see that but then again, so much else is collapsing that is causing slower health problems...mental health being key. I know of two suicides and lots more struggling mentally. Others who have not had treatment they should have had for ongoing health problems. A friend has ME and her health has declined terribly as she is not able to go to regular appointments. I know first hand that plenty of doctors have been quieter this year than ever - of course not including those in intensive care with high levels of patients. But generally across the board.

Is this concern about covid solely about making sure cases are managed so that the nhs isn’t overwhelmed? It seems like such a strange approach.

I think the idea is that the NHS will be overwhelmed and if the new virus takes hold then even the nightingales won't be enough. I don't know what equipment / staffing the nightingales have now

Private or NHS dentist, ClaireP20?

Though I assume it's the second or you probably wouldn't have mentioned it ...

Why the Nightingale Hospitals are sitting empty is really odd though Don't know about the rest of the country but Exeter Nightingale Hospital isn't sitting empty.

@suitsnot

So far though it hasn’t been overwhelmed and yet GPs and minor surgeries unrelated to covid are not taking place. These staff can’t treat covid patients as they are not trained to do so but then they are also not carrying out normal services such as surgeries and physio. It doesn’t seem right.

Because if GPs and hospital staff are infected in high numbers, we are in serious trouble. Those surgeons performing minor surgeries also perform urgent emergency surgeries. The more patients they see, the higher the chance that they’ll contract the virus, then they’ll be off, after passing it on to other healthcare staff.

Elective surgeries, mental health services, GP practices etc wouldn’t be running more efficiently without these measures - many we already operating with serious reductions in staff numbers due to some being vulnerable, some self isolating, or caring for children who are self isolating. If large numbers of staff contract it, the NHS will not be able to deal with the urgent things it needs to deal with. Maternity services are struggling massively with understaffing and reduced capacity for appointments due to cleaning rooms between patients etc - if units start having to close due to lack of staff, it will be a house of cards and that will be a crisis situation.

@Kaliorphic

I think the idea is that the NHS will be overwhelmed and if the new virus takes hold then even the nightingales won't be enough. I don't know what equipment / staffing the nightingales have now

The Nightingales are just window dressing. The issue is not space it’s staff. You can put as many ventilator beds as you like in an exhibition hall, but if you don’t have specialist staff to care for the occupants then they’re pointless. And all of the specialist staff are fully employed in the actual hospitals.

@suitsnot

It’s easy for me to say as I’m low risk but how long do we neglect everyone under age 70?

Even if beds are overwhelmed, why is a physio session cancelled? That is essential to some people. A physiotherapist can’t treat covid so it’s no loss there.

Physiotherapists can do and must treat patients who are in hospital with covid.

So much for your understanding of what physiotherapists do.

Absolutely no disrespect to you OP, I mean that but The fact that you are even asking this question after all these months confirms what I’ve felt since February. The government messaging has been appalling and assumed that the public understood the absolute basics of the issue - it is obvious so many people still do not appreciate what ‘protecting the NHS’ means. I could cry with frustration.

“But why is COVID more important than cancer?”

“But why are we shutting down for a disease with such a low death rate?”

“We don’t have anyone vulnerable in our family so we’re still having four households for Christmas lunch in tier 4”

“We will be 16 for lunch on Christmas Day but it’s ok because everyone has been careful”

The fact that anyone is still coming out with this rubbish shows how shabby the messaging has been. We needed 5 minute public information films with graphics, the Lily pond cartoon of what exponential growth actually means etc etc The government has completely over estimated the public no doubt about it.

My child has club foot and his physio is still ongoing- we’ve had two appointments this year. The service wasn’t able to see us during lockdown 1 but we had email contact. They also posted out some boots. They had to get special permission to see us f2f as he had blisters on feet (common issue with boots). So it’s more difficult to see physio but you and the consultants can make the case you need to be seen.

I think a lot of patients don’t necessarily realise they can request (or even demand) a f2f if needed . A lot can be done remotely very well.

The other issue with the nightingales is lack of equipment. They are not set up for ICU. Don’t have the oxygen for one thing

The govt won’t admit it, but they are there in case things get very bad to bring people to die in greater dignity. Better that than a hospital corridor.

The issue is not space it’s staff.

I know. Which was why I was wondering if the situation had been addressed.

@Puzzledandpissedoff I’m sorry but that can’t be true. If it is report!

GPs are available- online and on the phone

The NHS IS treating non-covid patients in hospitals; but they can only do so while there are enough healthy staff and uninfected wards and theatres to do so. Once covid admissions pass a critical point, that stops. .

Every selfish partying  git  who promotes the spread of covid,  is depriving heart and cancer patients and sick  children  of hospital beds and care.

We are in tier 4 area, one of the highest rates in the country and this is he current situation in the local hospital here:

1. there are huge numbers of staff of sick with covid or isolating, so many staff are covering inc children’s speech therapists and health visitors working on covid/maternity/cardiac/ICU wards.
2. every ward has covid patients, every single one
3. all non emergency procedures are cancelled, and that’s not just planned ones.
4. ambulances are queuing waiting for hours, up to 10 ambulances at a time. Therefore huge delays if you need an ambulance for any reason
5. doctors are choosing which patients to treat and which they cannot
6. patients are being transferred to hospitals further away which is starting to cause strain on hospitals that are in lower rate areas, including tier 2

This is real and Covid has the ability to grind the NHS to a halt quite literally

I actually can't fault my NHS treatment at the moment
Approved for Xolair and appointment within 3 weeks. Haematology are doing my usual appointments via phone. Ovary cyst scanned within a week of being found
Doctors on the other hand...

BlueSkies2020 I'd give you the practice number to call yourself, except that this is being done when the GP calls back so it wouldn't work with anyone not registered there, but please believe I'm not in the habit of making things up

And yes I have already reported it, though I've no confidence at all that anything will be done beyond possibly deregistering me

Over and over again in this thread, there's an obvious agenda by assorted lying scum to undermine "Protect the NHS" and govt health advice , with lies and misinformation.

I've reported this to MN .

OP, can you think back to Italy in March? How many under 60s with non-Covid illness were being successfully treated then? If your answer is "not many" why was that?

It’s easy for me to say as I’m low risk but how long do we neglect everyone under age 70?

You do realise that over 1,600 people under 70 have died due to COVID in the last four weeks of figures (up to 18th December)? I added it up the other day.
W/C 11/12 - 425
W/C 04/12 - 427
W/C 27/11 - 421
W/C 20/11 - 342

You can find this data here:

www.ons.gov.uk/file?uri=%2fpeoplepopulationandcommunity%2fbirthsdeathsandmarriages%2fdeaths%2fdatasets%2fweeklyprovisionalfiguresondeathsregisteredinenglandandwales%2f2020/publishedweek502020.xlsx

Sure, numbers of deaths rise sharply from 60 upwards, but it is not only elderly people who are dying. People in their 60s are not elderly. And without the measures that have been in place, it would be far worse.

Earlier this year, in 4 weeks during April 2020, deaths under 70 totalled 4,925 and almost 2,000 of these were under 60.

It apparently makes people feel better to think it’s only elderly or very sick people who will die due to COVID but this is not the case. People will often talk about pre-existing conditions but these can be things which are not otherwise life limiting. Diabetes increases risk, as does obesity - there are lots of diabetic or obese people living normal lives.

So while the likelihood of you dying in your 30s or 40s is low, that doesn’t mean that it won’t happen

[quote suitsnot]@LittleSpyintheSky there’s no disposable list. That’s not what I meant, as I’m sure you are aware. Not treating people with other conditions has wider concerns - is that really the right way? I don’t think it is. That’s all I am saying.[/quote]
Sorry OP, massively over the top from me there. I’ve been stuck in hospital since Thursday and, as I’m getting better, I’m starting to go a little stir crazy.

Nevertheless, I’m wondering what alternative you can see? What do you envisage happening to those with COVID who need immediate attention?

In any event, I had a mammogram in August on a Saturday morning. My friend had one a few weeks later. I had a telephone appointment with my breast surgeon. My husband has had several GP telephone appointments. Life if going on - you just don’t see it

I recommend watching The Hospital on BBC iPlayer. Filmed at a couple of London hospitals this autumn, it's a really interesting behind the scenes look at the reality and explains why other treatments sometimes have to be postponed due to covid.