The infection rate for pupils last week was 2,509 out of 100,000!!

[SoscaredforJan]

The Times today had reported that the infection rate for secondary pupils last week was 2,509 out of 100,000!! With the rate for primary school pupils close behind.

That’s absolutely shocking.

Rates of 300+ per 100,000 in the South East led to the emergency Tier 4 announcement at the weekend.

Rates among secondary school children are approx nine times this and primaries not far behind.

There can no longer be any conversation about schools remaining open. They need to close to all but key workers and the vulnerable and not reopen until the government has provided the money and means to make them truly ‘Covid secure’ or until enough people have been vaccinated.

How many deaths will we have in a months time when those infections have transferred to the elderly and vulnerable? How many more mutations will we have if the virus is allowed to carry on running through children? I for one do not want to find out that they vaccine no longer works.

It’s time to do what needs to be done. It’s tough and awful for everyone but it has to be done. The schools need to close.

I’m in a tier 4 area

Why aren't the people arguing for schools to stay open 'no matter what' arguing for masks in schools?

That seems to me to be the only possible strategy for them to stay open unless the government pumps in vast cash sums to allow smaller class sizes and social distancing (which, despite the billions given to Serco profiteers, seems they're not willing to do for our kids).

Even that might well not be enough now we've allowed this new variant to get out of control.

Fact is, whatever people say, they'll be shut most of the time if not all of the time without masks (even with, this may well happen).

I've been talking about viral load for a while now - the high viral load in schools because of no barriers at all to airborne transmission. Reports suggest this new variant increases viral load. More viral load = more severe disease.

The only thing we can do to reduce risk is mask up. Testing's good too but by the time a positive's found that's already a great deal of exposure time with high viral load without a mask. The only way to reduce THIS risk is masks. (well, ideally social distancing too but that seems unlikely as would need more funding).

Mary wow!

Pretty pathetic response.

You want a long term closure with absolutely no clue if its needed or not!

Can't comprehend that at all.

To support more people, the government need to work with businesses to make sure that flexible working is in place to support parents.

Schools are being creative, schools are being flexible, schools are having to stop and start due to illness and isolation, staff are covering all roles. ( headteacher with 3 hour lunch duties due to staggered bubbles for example.) Schools are having to do this to make government guidance work.

Schools can't be solely responsible for keep children safe and can't do this alone. If parents need to work businesses need government support to help.

I thought one of the criteria for furlough was childcare...has this been removed?

Mary

I am Tier 2.

When I checked recently I think we were 300 / 315 councils for cases.

Now tell me why my kids should miss out on school until March?

sherrystrull well shielding should apply to ECV teachers. ECV family members is a good point.
You'll note my post started with the words 'At the very least...'

@ByersRd

To support more people, the government need to work with businesses to make sure that flexible working is in place to support parents.

Schools are being creative, schools are being flexible, schools are having to stop and start due to illness and isolation, staff are covering all roles. ( headteacher with 3 hour lunch duties due to staggered bubbles for example.) Schools are having to do this to make government guidance work.

Schools can't be solely responsible for keep children safe and can't do this alone. If parents need to work businesses need government support to help.

I thought one of the criteria for furlough was childcare...has this been removed?

By "flexible working", do you mean "allowing" parents to work all day and night so they can also fit in the homeschooling? Because that's what a lot of working parents were offered last time.

Furlough for children care reasons was never allowed in my job (public sector). We didn't have furlough at all, as the job needed to be done.

Whilst home schooling nearly broke me last time (being a non key worker who works full time in a stressful job) I would be supportive of a short, sharp closure for 3 weeks, but this would need them to be much tighter on the other lockdown measures to make this actually work eg make the travel restrictions out of area into law not just guidance; tighten the definition of essential retailer (why are B&M bargains and the range classed as essential retailers and allowed to open?); force businesses to operate responsibly eg office workers still being forced to go to the office, factories and warehouses that are not set up for social distancing.
And then prioritise teachers for vaccines, mass test pupils on weekly basis and implement mask wearing for all pupils even during lessons.

Why is the conversation dominated by open for all or full closure?

Safety is the priority-for pupils and staff but why isn’t there more discussion of options that would keep pupils attending in some reduced capacity?
Rotas /blended learning / reduced concentrated hrs to allow for core subject teaching (eg 2.5hrs maths/English for half primary class to allow for smaller groups/ reduced contacts /actual social distancing in AM/PM)
I understand none of these options are going to suit everyone but for everyone concerned is there a workable solution that makes schools actually safer and means pupils (&parents & teachers) are not facing potentially MONTHS of home schooling (while wfh again).

@Wakeupin2022

Mary wow!

Pretty pathetic response.

You want a long term closure with absolutely no clue if its needed or not!

Can't comprehend that at all.

I want an 8 week closure (7 weeks with half term) in a tier 4 area - yes

@ceeveebee

Whilst home schooling nearly broke me last time (being a non key worker who works full time in a stressful job) I would be supportive of a short, sharp closure for 3 weeks, but this would need them to be much tighter on the other lockdown measures to make this actually work eg make the travel restrictions out of area into law not just guidance; tighten the definition of essential retailer (why are B&M bargains and the range classed as essential retailers and allowed to open?); force businesses to operate responsibly eg office workers still being forced to go to the office, factories and warehouses that are not set up for social distancing. And then prioritise teachers for vaccines, mass test pupils on weekly basis and implement mask wearing for all pupils even during lessons.

Agree - teachers must now be at greater risk

As I said before, this would really help following a period of closure. Many other countries have done it. Fab idea

We are in one of the new variant areas. My son’s senior school had 3 cases during the term but after school shut last Thursday - 7 students and teachers have now tested positive. My daughter’s senior school had 1 case during term except in the last 2-3 weeks of December where there were 5 cases.

I have said that I thought a short sharp lockdown in January alongside an aggressive vaccination programme (if Oxford gets clear within the week) was the best way to bring it down and I think the current situation more than anything needs this.

I would say 3 weeks for Secondary online then blended for the next 3 weeks of term should hopefully bring it down

Primary I think possibly just the 3 weeks

The problem is we have just tested positive - 3 of us just a simple cold (sneezing slight sore throat) and only got tested when DH had a cough for 24 hours

@PastMyBestBeforeDate

sherrystrull well shielding should apply to ECV teachers. ECV family members is a good point. You'll note my post started with the words 'At the very least...'

'At the very least' could mean anything and I didn't know if you were meaning staff as you hadn't specifically mentioned them which is why I asked.

Children don't "get to mix freely in large groups"

Bloody hell I wish people who had no clue what it looks like in secondary schools at the moment would stop telling people who do that they are wrong about what it's like.

Children. Mix freely. In large groups. In secondary schools.

All the time. Herds of them. Sometimes indoors in classrooms before teachers can get there, sometimes in corridors possibly wearing masks and definitely outdoors.

Grumblymumbly - ever school has a plan for this and has since the start of the year. Every teacher I know wanted a rota return so there could be distancing so bubbles then didn’t need to collapse endlessly. It’s the govt who have blocked this. Our school started well and had no cases for weeks then it hit and no one has had a great time since. Some kids have been si for 6weeks or more. My dept of ten had only one teacher who hasn’t had it and a few staff have been left very unwell. It all could have been managed in a much more sustainable and sensible way.

To be fair they don’t mix in large groups in all schools. My niece’s school streamed all the kids into ability groups for year 7-9 and they stay in their class bubble all week. Our primary school (and think most primary schools) has been incredibly strict on keeping the kids in their class bubbles, which has meant that we have only had one class closure all term despite being in a tier 3 area.

@ceeveebee

To be fair they don’t mix in large groups in all schools. My niece’s school streamed all the kids into ability groups for year 7-9 and they stay in their class bubble all week. Our primary school (and think most primary schools) has been incredibly strict on keeping the kids in their class bubbles, which has meant that we have only had one class closure all term despite being in a tier 3 area.

Yes we have that too but trust me year groups do cross each other, kids wait for their friends at the (shared) toilets (not to mention waiting for them at the gate allotted to different year groups)... they do find a way!

noelgiraffe dd was telling me that last week some of the boys were going round licking other people at her secondary

Children. Mix freely. In large groups. In secondary schools.

The generalised cognitive dissonance with regard to this (especially from otherwise intelligent and rational people) is astounding.

@noelgiraffe

Children don't "get to mix freely in large groups"

Bloody hell I wish people who had no clue what it looks like in secondary schools at the moment would stop telling people who do that they are wrong about what it's like.

Children. Mix freely. In large groups. In secondary schools.

All the time. Herds of them. Sometimes indoors in classrooms before teachers can get there, sometimes in corridors possibly wearing masks and definitely outdoors.

YES!!!!!

@PastMyBestBeforeDate

noelgiraffe dd was telling me that last week some of the boys were going round licking other people at her secondary

Yup! Children on purpose closing windows, licking each other (for a laugh!), coughing on each other, shouting at each other for coughing, purposely crossing teacher's line to make the teacher more anxious... bets are off in schools despite the lovely RAs

South Korea struggling to keep schools open. :(

Japan under pressure to close schools & HK has closed some.

What an awful mess. :(

I don't know, I think saying South Korea, when it has a population of 51 million and a 'record daily total' of 1030 cases suggest that they aren't 'struggling', but more proactive in their measures and far better at keeping on top of things than the UK.