The infection rate for pupils last week was 2,509 out of 100,000!!

[SoscaredforJan]

The Times today had reported that the infection rate for secondary pupils last week was 2,509 out of 100,000!! With the rate for primary school pupils close behind.

That’s absolutely shocking.

Rates of 300+ per 100,000 in the South East led to the emergency Tier 4 announcement at the weekend.

Rates among secondary school children are approx nine times this and primaries not far behind.

There can no longer be any conversation about schools remaining open. They need to close to all but key workers and the vulnerable and not reopen until the government has provided the money and means to make them truly ‘Covid secure’ or until enough people have been vaccinated.

How many deaths will we have in a months time when those infections have transferred to the elderly and vulnerable? How many more mutations will we have if the virus is allowed to carry on running through children? I for one do not want to find out that they vaccine no longer works.

It’s time to do what needs to be done. It’s tough and awful for everyone but it has to be done. The schools need to close.

Our school went to no cases for the last 2 weeks of school to 3 year groups (600 pupils) isolating over Christmas due to multiple positive cases detected a few days later.

And yes, primary schools I know are incredibly strict about bubbles and distancing. My son in yr 1 told me, matter of factly, he got told off for touching his friends desk with his back the other day.

But this simply isn't possible in many many schools, including primary.

We have class bubbles ideally but the reality is that the three classes within each year group are mixing daily to some extent.

Our classes have at least 2 children per double table. In some rooms it is necessary to have 3. We can't separate these tables out so they are touching the tab,Ed next to them. Therefore each child automatically has at least 2 other children sat immediately next to them, shoulder to shoulder.

We don't have the playground space to separate class bubbles, therefore the whole of a year group - 3 classes - are playing out together at the same time. We keep year groups separate where possible, yet they use the same playground one after another,

We don't have enough toilet blocks for one per bubble. Whole year groups use the same toilets as a minimum that's 90 children using one small toilet block, with 3 toilets and two sinks.

Reception don't have individual table space. They are sharing toys and equipment all day, wherever possible this is restricted to their one class but due to the open plan nature of our building this isn't always possible.

Staggered starts and finishes are minimally possible as we have so many children with siblings in the same school or the attached junior school. It just simply didn't work. At least parents are wearing masks.

An old Victorian school has many narrow corridors and pinch points. These are impossible to change right now without major work.

We have staff who work across classes and year groups. We've tried to reduce this as much as possible, and mostly this is just within a year group now - though that kicked in after 2/3 of the staff were off with covid and after all 9 classes had needed to isolate at least once. Sometimes it's not possible to prevent though, especially where there are low staff numbers due to illness or isolation. Once you add supply teachers and TAs this also has an impact on those bubbles.

We are now allowed to wear masks within the classroom if we wish, though this isn't publicised. We were told we'd be able to do so when returning in September but that changed and we were advised not to. After so many ended up ill the]is has changed. We have had increased anti bac sprays added around school and we have the windows open. Some rooms are freezing but it's one of the only mitigation's we have available to us.

Sadly covid did get into our school. We ended up with about 3/4 staff testing positive, many parents and some children, aged 4-7y testing positive. Not many children were actually being tested at the time due to not having the key 3 symptoms. Recently parents have started testing for other symptoms now based on what those with positive children have told them.

@m0therofdragons

Our school went to no cases for the last 2 weeks of school to 3 year groups (600 pupils) isolating over Christmas due to multiple positive cases detected a few days later.

Yes, until. I'd October we had no cases. Then within 5 weeks every class had isolated at least once and 2/3 of staff had tested positive, over 8 weeks this increased to 3/4 staff and some classes isolating again,

Before that I guess we'd simply been luckily.
All was fine, until it wasn't, in a matter of days.

And yes, the usual disclaimer. I don't want schools to close. I enjoy my job and it's a darn sight easier to do in school than re lately. March to July was manic - I've never worked so many hours in my teaching career as I did then. I worked from home throughout due to my own health and also my specific role in school. However, due to the nature of our school, almost all out staff were in school, in class, with full bubbles of key worker and vulnerable children, right from the start, and we were also providing a whole raft of remote learning for our pupils, albeit not live lessons (not appropriate for our catchment nor was it even desired by our parents) but daily core,subjects with pre recorded lessons and accompanying activities and weekly lessons for all other non core subject areas.

However, despite preferring schools to be open, I do believe we need to do what's best to reduce cases, keep people - including children and school staff safer, reduce the pressure in our hospitals and get the vaccination program better established. If that means returning to remote learning for a week or two then I guess it's what we have to do. It won't be easy. It won't be pleasant. Infact it maybe really difficult.

[quote mumsneedwine]@nicebreeze I wrote just dig ? Not sure where but no clue what it means.
Must be part of me enjoying watching my friends and colleagues get so ill. That and the students too. Because they do, despite what the press report. [/quote]
You did - someone said they were struggling, you made a comment saying "it's hard when people don't agree with up isn't it". Someone else asked if it was a dig... I then read a reply from you saying "Dig 🤣" but o didn't realise that was a correction of your post earlier where you'd said "not a dig" but it had autocorrected to "dog". So I misunderstood you completely and apologies. I just thought you were being incredibly cruel

@Abraxan

And yes, primary schools I know are incredibly strict about bubbles and distancing. My son in yr 1 told me, matter of factly, he got told off for touching his friends desk with his back the other day.

But this simply isn't possible in many many schools, including primary.

We have class bubbles ideally but the reality is that the three classes within each year group are mixing daily to some extent.

Our classes have at least 2 children per double table. In some rooms it is necessary to have 3. We can't separate these tables out so they are touching the tab,Ed next to them. Therefore each child automatically has at least 2 other children sat immediately next to them, shoulder to shoulder.

We don't have the playground space to separate class bubbles, therefore the whole of a year group - 3 classes - are playing out together at the same time. We keep year groups separate where possible, yet they use the same playground one after another,

We don't have enough toilet blocks for one per bubble. Whole year groups use the same toilets as a minimum that's 90 children using one small toilet block, with 3 toilets and two sinks.

Reception don't have individual table space. They are sharing toys and equipment all day, wherever possible this is restricted to their one class but due to the open plan nature of our building this isn't always possible.

Staggered starts and finishes are minimally possible as we have so many children with siblings in the same school or the attached junior school. It just simply didn't work. At least parents are wearing masks.

An old Victorian school has many narrow corridors and pinch points. These are impossible to change right now without major work.

We have staff who work across classes and year groups. We've tried to reduce this as much as possible, and mostly this is just within a year group now - though that kicked in after 2/3 of the staff were off with covid and after all 9 classes had needed to isolate at least once. Sometimes it's not possible to prevent though, especially where there are low staff numbers due to illness or isolation. Once you add supply teachers and TAs this also has an impact on those bubbles.

We are now allowed to wear masks within the classroom if we wish, though this isn't publicised. We were told we'd be able to do so when returning in September but that changed and we were advised not to. After so many ended up ill the]is has changed. We have had increased anti bac sprays added around school and we have the windows open. Some rooms are freezing but it's one of the only mitigation's we have available to us.

Sadly covid did get into our school. We ended up with about 3/4 staff testing positive, many parents and some children, aged 4-7y testing positive. Not many children were actually being tested at the time due to not having the key 3 symptoms. Recently parents have started testing for other symptoms now based on what those with positive children have told them.

It's true, his school is small and a fairly modern (albeit with some of those temp but things) so has space. I just know the head and LEA have put in place strict rules and he and the teachers are not shy about enforcing them.

It's not just a black/white binary choice of schools or no schools.

Here in France, my children's schools have been open all day every day. PE and swimming classes are cancelled. Everyone wears masks all day long except for lunch with strict measures and there have been very few isolated infections. Their classmates were all tested and none were found to be positive.

Masks do work. Education can continue at schools if everyone wears masks.

@CoteDAzur I agree. It's complete madness that this approach wasn't adopted early on in the Uk.

It's true, his school is small and a fairly modern (albeit with some of those temp but things) so has space. I just know the head and LEA have put in place strict rules and he and the teachers are not shy about enforcing them.

Oh believe me, I'm not shy at enforcing the rules where they are possible. As a clinically vulnerable member of teaching staff, who was teaching across the whole school, I was as strict as I could be with those 4-7 year olds. But when you've an old, over crowded and cramped building then it's very limited what can be done.

We have the rules in place that we are allowed and what are possible. It's all we could do. But it was feeling inevitable from day 1. Most schools are in no way covid secure. Some are lucky and have managed to avoid it so far. Some haven't been so lucky. And some have been truly decimated last term.

And I do believe that for almost all schools it is as simple as that - just luck.

@CoteDAzur

It's not just a black/white binary choice of schools or no schools.

Here in France, my children's schools have been open all day every day. PE and swimming classes are cancelled. Everyone wears masks all day long except for lunch with strict measures and there have been very few isolated infections. Their classmates were all tested and none were found to be positive.

Masks do work. Education can continue at schools if everyone wears masks.

For some reason our British children aren't able to deal with masks it seems. The very mention of teaching staff wearing them in class upsets so many parents, let alone the idea of their own children wearing them. Consider it for primary aged children and there's uproar half the time.

@nicebreeze social media is a dangerous thing 😊. We teach the kids but sometimes get it wrong ourselves.

@CoteDAzur

It's not just a black/white binary choice of schools or no schools.

Here in France, my children's schools have been open all day every day. PE and swimming classes are cancelled. Everyone wears masks all day long except for lunch with strict measures and there have been very few isolated infections. Their classmates were all tested and none were found to be positive.

Masks do work. Education can continue at schools if everyone wears masks.

In the UK it's unimaginable. There have been a lot of ppl saying this is what we need as a minimum. But UK kids are special and won't tolerate it. :(

Masks do work. Education can continue at schools if everyone wears masks.

The choice really should be now: schools open with masks (from age 6) or not at all.

It's an unsafe working environment and not using a very basic mitigation - it's illegal as far as I can tell under health and safety legislation (i.e. not doing the minimum to protect staff).

For some children it's probably a choice now between masks or dead parents. We'll never know who ahead of time, but I simply can't comprehend how a minor inconvenience for most children is put above lifelong loss for others.

Oh and I'm absolutely for masks in schools and have written to tell both HTs this - including for my 4 year old who manages fine with a mask.

I get that probably not all 4 year olds could manage this but for older kids it really should be mandated.

Maybe give parents the choice, come to school with masks or stay at home. I bet they’d go for the mask option.

I’d happily send my DC to school in masks. But are they effective if not used properly? I dread to think how full of germs they would be with constant touching, dropping them on the floor, taking masks off and sticking in pockets, swapping masks with friends for a laugh etc.
Teachers need to be vaccinated as a priority

@ceeveebee

I’d happily send my DC to school in masks. But are they effective if not used properly? I dread to think how full of germs they would be with constant touching, dropping them on the floor, taking masks off and sticking in pockets, swapping masks with friends for a laugh etc. Teachers need to be vaccinated as a priority

Do they do that with socks? shoes? jackets? Why is this nation of such a low opinion of kids???? Yes, at the beginning there will be some like that. But they will get used to it. If this happened in Sept we could be in a much better position now.

@JacobReesMogadishu
Great. what good do you think it does when 1 kid wears a mask full time but nobody else?

Could we move on from this individualistic crap at last?
Kids won't be harmed by masks. 10+ months into this and in the UK this is still up for debate. I despair.

From what I hear and see, this is what secondary school kids are doing now on the way to and from school so good luck with the 6 year olds.

@ceeveebee

From what I hear and see, this is what secondary school kids are doing now on the way to and from school so good luck with the 6 year olds.

To be fair, my experience is that the 6yo are probably more sensible when it comes to this kind of thing than the teenagers are. Plus less likely to be unsupervised in big groups than the teens are.

Definitely no masks on classes-please. Am a secondary teacher and you cannot hear what the pupils say if they are wearing a mask (some already do).
Stats show STILL only around 40 deaths in under 40’s in the UK since the beginning of the pandemic despite many thousands infected -totally disproportionate response to demand masks in schools.

@EmmanuelleMakro

Definitely no masks on classes-please. Am a secondary teacher and you cannot hear what the pupils say if they are wearing a mask (some already do). Stats show STILL only around 40 deaths in under 40’s in the UK since the beginning of the pandemic despite many thousands infected -totally disproportionate response to demand masks in schools.

But why are we so different to others across the world, who are managing to teach and learn effectively with masks?

Other places across the world are making masks work in schools. Why are British schools and children somehow unable to hear and listen when a piece of fabric is in front of their mouth?

Oh and I've worn a mask in school since returning after covid, so for about 4 weeks. Not a single child (aged 4-7y) or parent has commented negatively, and all children have managed to understand what I've said to them and make progress with their learning. It's simply been a non event and caused no issues,

@EmmanuelleMakro

Definitely no masks on classes-please. Am a secondary teacher and you cannot hear what the pupils say if they are wearing a mask (some already do). Stats show STILL only around 40 deaths in under 40’s in the UK since the beginning of the pandemic despite many thousands infected -totally disproportionate response to demand masks in schools.

So if you don't want masks in classrooms, what are you proposing?

The status quo that saw only 55% attendance in Kent secondary schools on 10th December with the other children unable to leave the house?

Closed schools?

Rotas?

Other mitigation measures?

'No masks in classrooms' FAILED. We tried it, it didn't work. Education was massively disrupted. So what do you propose?

@Abraxan but other countries using masks are also having high cases I think relying on just masks is also risky

@noblegiraffe but europe are using masks there casea are also rising masks alone will not stop this
Wearing a cloth mask for 5 hrs etc , mines damp after 30 mins