Costco denying entry to mask exempt unless they wear a shield

[LifelsAPigsty]

Surely this is discrimination? Some people who can't wear a mask can't wear a visor either (I can't, I have trigeminal neuralgia and can't tolerate any pressure on my face/head/temples). There are other conditions which make wearing them impossible, too. I'm sure the government guidelines state this sort of action isn't permitted?

I don't shop at Costco personally but I'm so worried other places will follow suit (and no, I can't avoid shops sadly - no delivery slots for months here and I don't drive so no c&c. Also no friends/relatives to shop for me).

Yet another layer of anxiety and worry

Same rules in Canada, and told that if shops offer other forms of accommodation (online shopping or personal shopping with delivery) it’s not discrimination to not allow people in the store.

The ultimate reality is that anyone not wearing a face covering in an enclosed indoor space is putting other people at risk!

Face coverings do very little to protect the wearer but a reasonable amount to protect others! So everyone wears them to protect everyone else!

What you’re saying is I should be entitled to put everyone else at risk because I’m disabled and whilst I empathise (Wearing masks makes me vomit and light headed due to pregnancy) you do not have the right to put others at risk regardless of your disability

Imagine you pass covid to some poor single mum and she’s laid there in intensive care. You might as well stand at the end of her bed pointing and saying ‘but Im disabled so I was entitled to infect her!’

No, if you can’t play your part in keeping everyone safe then it’s right you are stopped from participating. I do however think indoor venues should offer at least 1-2 hours per day where those unable to wear masks can go. That way people who simply aren’t happy to take the risk of mixing with non mask wearers can go.

Tbh I feel a similar way about children. On the rare occasions I have to take my baby into the supermarket I pull the visor all the way down on his pushchair so he’s essentially in a bubble. I don’t think it would be unreasonable for parents to use rain covers...etc on pushchairs and children old enough should wear masks or avoid indoor areas.

No one likes wearing the masks but we all have a massive responsibility to each other!

*non mask wearers can avoid those times and everyone gets to chose their own level of risk!

@Pumpertrumper

*non mask wearers can avoid those times and everyone gets to chose their own level of risk!

What about the staff and their level of risk?

@SteeperThanHell

Staff should wear masks, visors or appropriate face coverings. It’s really not about political correctness in the face of a massive pandemic and overflowing hospitals. It’s ok to say ‘maybe they can’t work in a mask all day’ but many don’t get the option. My DH works in a hospital and they HAVE to wear masks. No exceptions at all.

Those with genuine exemptions who can’t wear a mask but work in a public facing role should be furloughed on full pay or receive similar support from the gov. I can’t imagine there are actually that many who fit that category though. Given we’ve now grown a whole new sodding strain of covid what we’ve been doing so far obviously isn’t working... is it

Do you wear glasses?

I’ve seen visors that clip on to the glasses so it isn’t touching your face.

I’ve also seen visors that clip around the base of your neck, and then stick out but cover your mouth and nose. It doesn’t touch your face at all

"underhisi ah, so you think the majority should stay indoors at the expense of allowing people without masks be able to shop instead? Okay. 🙄"

I'm questioning "need". The word should be 'want'.

If we are going to ban people without masks from indoor spaces then we also need to ban anyone from bringing a baby or young child with them who isn't wearing one. They will also have to make other arrangements.

I hope all those seeing themselves as worthy people because they can wear a mask are not deliberately putting others at risk and spreading the virus by doing things like mixing with other households at Christmas, have never socialised indoors anywhere with others outside their household since March, let their children play too closely with other children etc. All chosen virus spreading activities.

[quote Pumpertrumper]@SteeperThanHell

Staff should wear masks, visors or appropriate face coverings. It’s really not about political correctness in the face of a massive pandemic and overflowing hospitals. It’s ok to say ‘maybe they can’t work in a mask all day’ but many don’t get the option. My DH works in a hospital and they HAVE to wear masks. No exceptions at all.

Those with genuine exemptions who can’t wear a mask but work in a public facing role should be furloughed on full pay or receive similar support from the gov. I can’t imagine there are actually that many who fit that category though. Given we’ve now grown a whole new sodding strain of covid what we’ve been doing so far obviously isn’t working... is it [/quote]
Masks offer some protection to the wearer but are more for the benefit of the wearer not passing it on to others. Visors are only really useful for protection against aerosol generating procedures - and are a waste of time without a mask.

Would you really want to be a shop worker surrounded by a few hundred non-mask wearers - even if it was for only an hour a day?

What we need is a system that allows the genuinely very small number of people who can’t wear a mask to not wear one and ensures that those who just can’t be bothered do.

I’ve quite honestly had enough of being put at risk by people who just can’t be bothered / forgot / don’t believe. My husband has leukaemia so me bringing COVID home is a massive risk to us.

Okay. I've answered these questions many, many times already but I'll do it again and all in one place, rather than everyone individually:

1. No, I haven't been able to get a delivery slot for ages at a time when I can be home (or at all, for the past 4 or 5 weeks).

1. My local volunteer groups only help those who are vulnerable or have had a positive test result. Yes, I have RA, but I'm not vulnerable and can shop for myself. I really hope people aren't suggesting I lie to take help from those who really need it.

1. Not everyone has friends or relatives or neighbours to help. Just because you have, doesn't mean everyone has.

1. All health conditions affect sufferers differently. Some people with TN can wear masks, some can't.

1. It's not just about shopping. Those who cannot wear masks also need to access public transport, medical appointments etc. Strangely enough all PT staff and HCPs I've encountered have been very understanding and kind. Ditto supermarket staff.

1. This thread isn't an appeal for solutions as to how I can go to Costco - as I said in the OP, I don't shop there. My concern is that other places will adopt this policy, and the implications for discrimination. It's a slippery slope.

1. I know people are scared - I am, too. I'm also scared of the abuse and threats I get almost every time I go out. Surely if people are so terrified, they wouldn't come right up into my face to hiss that I'm a disease breathed tramp? Or shout across a bus at me?

If you see someone without a mask just keep away from them if you're concerned. I for one wouldn't be offended, I would completely understand. In shops I try to go to checkout staff who are also exempt because I feel they will understand (although as I said, shop staff without exception have been lovely). I always respect SD and really, really wish others would too rather than get up close and personal to hurl abuse

@WanderingMilly

Very sorry to hear of your condition, and yes, it must be extremely difficult for you. However, the shops can choose who they admit or not, and Costco may have decided that, on balance, they need to protect themselves and other shoppers. You will need to choose somewhere else to shop unfortunately; none of us has a "right" to shop where we wish, whatever our conditions….

Nowhere can deny service on grounds of disability.

@Bajalaluna

Imagine this scenario... The U.K is under attack.... Tonnes of poisonous gas has just been unleashed all over the U.K.... everyone MUST wear masks when venturing outside their homes and into public spaces... How many are still exempt? Pretty sure if they told us this, the mask wearing population would grow as fast as the Covid rates are doing currently.

Apart from the fact that a face mask would offer no protection against poisonous gas (!), the answer would be nope. Still wouldn't be able to wear one.

"Imagine this scenario... The U.K is under attack.... Tonnes of poisonous gas has just been unleashed all over the U.K.... everyone MUST wear masks when venturing outside their homes and into public spaces... How many are still exempt? Pretty sure if they told us this, the mask wearing population would grow as fast as the Covid rates are doing currently."

Imagine this scenario... There is a raging fire and the only escape is to walk out ... How many still cannot walk. Pretty sure if this happened the number of people able to walk would grow as fast as the Covid rates are doing currently.

Wow, these replies are brutal. You have a serious health condition / disability & can’t wear a mask, Costco should not discriminate! It’s disgusting & getting out of hand,
I am a Costco member & do wear a mask & completely disagree with their approach. Ffs, I don’t understand these replies - the world has gone mad.

@EileenGC

I live in Germany and that's how it is here. For every shop. Supermarkets, H&M, Ikea, anything you can think of (not right now as they're all closed anyway).

It's either a mask, or a shield for those who are exempt from mask wearing. But you must carry a medical certificate with you stating you're exempt, and the shield must be one of the authorised models.

I personally haven't seen a single person without a mask in a shop, since they were made compulsory in April. Public transport yes, as it's not so well policed. But they won't let you in the supermarket unless you're wearing your face mask correctly. Staff have the right to challenge you on this, and no one gets offended when they're asked about it.

I've been wondering what people for whom even a shield is impossible to wear have been doing. Probably they only shop online or send family members/friends to buy their stuff instead?

We need something like this - where people who are exempt carry a medical certificate.

The main problem is that the government has not instructed doctors to issue exemption letters where genuinely needed so anyone can self report - many people aren't wearing masks because they don't want to and know they cannot be challenged. Whole families aren't wearing them at Asda (noticeably more than at Morrison's nearby in fact). Masks protect others so we rely on large scale compliance.

Perhaps the solution is a specific shopping time for those who cannot mask limited in number of spaces so they can have extra space to distance.

Visors are pointless without mask so their policy isn't protecting anyone, it's purely performative.

@LifelsAPigsty

I think my post got a bit lost. I wasn’t offering a solution to Costco but I have thought of a solution to the shopping problem. This isn’t necessarily about reducing your risk to others but actually reducing your experience of risk. With your condition, ending up on a ventilator or on oxygen in hospital for weeks will be truly horrific.

Do you have a Sainsbury’s near you? They don’t have a minimum on click and collect - they charge £4 instead. (But what is £4 versus sparing you ending up on a ventilator?)

help.sainsburys.co.uk/help/delivery-collection/click-collect

Tesco have reduced their minimum click and collect to £25 www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/zone/reasons-to-shop
If you put in one expensive thing, like meat, cheese or branded washing tabs, or some expensive nuts like pine nuts, you could easily make £25 without having too much to carry. Could you get/ do you have a shopping trolley?

You can’t eliminate all risk as I know you have to go to work and use public transport, but shops are the most dangerous places apart from schools, so you would eliminate a major risk factor.

Here is my other suggestion if there is no Tesco or Sainsbury’s near you, as it looks like you need to anticipate the mask mandate tightening up and prebook delivery slots now! Book them for weeks away if that is all they offer.

You could even get a cheap freezer second hand delivered, or a new one that curry’s or similar will carry in and install see this: business.currys.co.uk/catalogue/kitchen-domestic-appliances/refrigeration/chest-freezers/essentials-c95cfw20-chest-freezer-white/B287106B?cidp=Froogle&gclid=CjwKCAiAz4b_BRBbEiwA5XlVViNBO2KvD2OCtliCgQGRFxkRmkB-e0pDTEpjA7WiBnTNb7togQ9-txoCyw8QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

You might not have room for it, but it can sit in a living room or wherever as it will be a temporary solution. Jan sales will have some massive bargains too

You can then book a delivery slot in 4-8 weeks’ time and put loads onto it. You can then immediately book another delivery for next available slot 4-8 weeks after THAT - and not have to worry about this (nor put yourself and others at risk) again.

Hi there,
We've received a couple of reports about this thread, saying that - among other things - the tone is rather unsympathetic under the circumstances.
We're inclined to agree that some of the posts haven't quite grasped the OP's point that she cannot wear a mask, to do so would cause excruciating pain.
We're disinclined to make deletions, because we know everyone is stressed at the moment and we don't believe anyone was posting to be disablist or cruel, but we thought we'd add our wee bit in order that new posters to the thread are fully aware of the facts.
Peace and love and compassion to all.

@SteeperThanHell

Ah sorry, I thought you meant the issue of staff members not having to wear masks. So therefore still having the risk of being around non mask wearers even if no customers were allowed in without them. I misunderstood.

I see your point entirely. There isn’t much difference from an infection point of view between serving 50 exempt (non mask wearing) customers in one go over the space of an hour, or dribs and drabs over the course of a day but either way no the staff member should not be forced to take that risk.

Maybe a better solution would be to actually limit delivery/collection slots for those who were in real need/mask exempt. I think supermarkets could do much more to make this happen.
During the March lockdown they worked with the NHS to give priority to those on their vulnerable lists. No idea why that was scrapped!

I 100% agree that every adult and child (not restrained in a pushchair/carrier) who enters an indoor public place should wear a mask for the safety of others. No one has the right to pose a danger to others. No one.

However, there does need to options in place for people who genuinely can not wear masks as it’s ridiculous to expect them to starve and no ‘asking a friend/family member/local volunteer’ can’t be the only option as it makes people feel like a burden and removes their independence to shop for themselves. Over a short term period it was not ideal. Over a long term period it’s cruel!

Supermarkets could consider vastly reducing staff during a mask free hour. Or offering staff who are willing to work additional PPE.

Everyone needs to be able to do their weekly shop.

"I 100% agree that every adult and child (not restrained in a pushchair/carrier) who enters an indoor public place should wear a mask for the safety of others. No one has the right to pose a danger to others. No one."

What difference does a baby carrier or pushchair make? They could still spread it. If no one is allowed in without a mask it should be no one.

[quote Pumpertrumper]@SteeperThanHell

Ah sorry, I thought you meant the issue of staff members not having to wear masks. So therefore still having the risk of being around non mask wearers even if no customers were allowed in without them. I misunderstood.

I see your point entirely. There isn’t much difference from an infection point of view between serving 50 exempt (non mask wearing) customers in one go over the space of an hour, or dribs and drabs over the course of a day but either way no the staff member should not be forced to take that risk.

Maybe a better solution would be to actually limit delivery/collection slots for those who were in real need/mask exempt. I think supermarkets could do much more to make this happen.
During the March lockdown they worked with the NHS to give priority to those on their vulnerable lists. No idea why that was scrapped!

I 100% agree that every adult and child (not restrained in a pushchair/carrier) who enters an indoor public place should wear a mask for the safety of others. No one has the right to pose a danger to others. No one.

However, there does need to options in place for people who genuinely can not wear masks as it’s ridiculous to expect them to starve and no ‘asking a friend/family member/local volunteer’ can’t be the only option as it makes people feel like a burden and removes their independence to shop for themselves. Over a short term period it was not ideal. Over a long term period it’s cruel!

Supermarkets could consider vastly reducing staff during a mask free hour. Or offering staff who are willing to work additional PPE.

Everyone needs to be able to do their weekly shop.[/quote]
I absolutely agree - there needs to be a system in place to allow the small number of people who cannot wear a mask to not wear one and to ensure that those who can do.

Regarding delivery.
Costco do delivery however not everything and certainly not everything I buy or if I did I have to buy in the masses.

Some can't get a delivery bevcase I shop at aldi, lidl. Etc. Or cannot afford tesco etc on a weekly basis.
It's not all about slot availability and times.

But I've always said if exempt maybe some sort of backup letter from gp Or whoever to support it. Not the for example 'It makes me too hot' to wear one brigade.

Buy why should the OP do online shopping? Why should they hide away, because they have a disability? They have already said it doesn’t make them more vulnerable, so shops can discriminate and the answer is “oh well, do online shopping instead”.

@Sockwomble

If you read my earlier comment in conversation with @SteeperThanHell you’d see I specify visors pulled right down over prams or rain covers used to essentially create bubbles. This is what I do with my DS to provide protection to other shoppers.

Being strapped into a pushchair/pram/carrier also gives control over the child’s interactions with other shoppers. It’s far too frequent in supermarkets that unmasked children are running around, getting far too close to shoppers or touching everything and parents angrily claim ‘well they’re just kids what can I do?’ - they are not less infectious, far from. If you can’t control them or they don’t understand the need to distance don’t bring them. End of!

Yes I’m a parent.