Costco denying entry to mask exempt unless they wear a shield

[LifelsAPigsty]

Surely this is discrimination? Some people who can't wear a mask can't wear a visor either (I can't, I have trigeminal neuralgia and can't tolerate any pressure on my face/head/temples). There are other conditions which make wearing them impossible, too. I'm sure the government guidelines state this sort of action isn't permitted?

I don't shop at Costco personally but I'm so worried other places will follow suit (and no, I can't avoid shops sadly - no delivery slots for months here and I don't drive so no c&c. Also no friends/relatives to shop for me).

Yet another layer of anxiety and worry

@PerveenMistry I've addressed your blind driver analogy already.

Of course we shouldn't let blind people drive. But we shouldn't deny them the use of public transport, either.

The thing is OP, if other companies do follow suit, then those that genuinely can’t wear masks, will be (and absolutely should be) prioritised and given all the support they need.

Regarding work, they should still be able to get paid full pay if they have to stay at home etc... if the rules are you can’t go to work unless you wear a mask, then you should not have to worry about money.

I think your worries are unfounded and I don’t imagine it will cross over in to other areas, but if it did, they would make sure everything was in place to make your life easier. They should do!!

They probably do need to get some kind of system whereby those that genuinely can’t wear a mask, have some kind of medical certificate that they show. Sadly there are too many people taking the piss and it spoils it did people like you.

for people like you I mean

[quote LifelsAPigsty]@PerveenMistry I've addressed your blind driver analogy already.

Of course we shouldn't let blind people drive. But we shouldn't deny them the use of public transport, either.[/quote]
Blind people using public transport doesn't put others in life-threatening danger.

@PerveenMistry will you be as disdainful towards people who cannot get the vaccine for health reasons, I wonder?

However many times you post, it seems you will never accept that your rights as an individual sometimes will adversely affect others. Or perhaps you just don’t give a wotsit. You want to do what you want to do and should you breathe a few covid fumes on someone then that’s their bad luck.

Op, what is your thought on the fact that you may potentially spread the virus to others? You said you feel guilty, but is that all? It's ok to make other people potentially suffer as long as your rights are protected? Like I said before, it's not black and white. We all want best for ourselves, same as you. Sad you don't seem to understand other people's point of view, and we are all disablist if we don't agree with you.

@IrmaFayLear

However many times you post, it seems you will never accept that your rights as an individual sometimes will adversely affect others. Or perhaps you just don’t give a wotsit. You want to do what you want to do and should you breathe a few covid fumes on someone then that’s their bad luck.

If you've RTFT you will have seen me say that when it became apparent I could not wear a mask, I was very upset. I feel tremendous guilt and worry, every time I leave the house. It's this awful attitude that those who are exempt don't 'give a wotsit', that we're selfish, that all we care about is our 'rights' that so many in my position find upsetting. Of course we care about others, what a horrible thing to say. We worry every time we go to work or get on a bus.

@Xerochrysum see above. And also as I've said before, I'm not calling anyone who is worried about those who are exempt not wearing masks 'ableist' - just those who imply that we're not trying hard enough, that we could if we wanted to, that we should stay at home and not access medical care or go to work, or those who call is disease breathed filthy tramps and similar. They're ableist. Worrying about catching Covid is not ableist.

And no, it's not black and white - for example, in the way that suggesting that those of us unable to mask up are perfectly ok with making others suffer. We are not. I'd love to wear a mask. I've tried everything in order to be able to do so. I am not feckless or selfish. And it's not a case of 'doing what I want to do'. I want to wear a mask but doing so puts me at risk of having an attack, falling unconscious and wetting myself in public. I cannot wear one. It's not a 'choice', or 'fighting for my rights'. I am literally unable to. I hate it, the risk I'm putting others in, but what choice do I have? I would happily take a test every day to lessen the risk, but that's not possible.

Please, please stop implying that those who cannot wear masks are making a choice not to do so, and that we're fine with that. We are not.

The problem you're up against is medics saying saying masks are essential and not wearing them causes death of others. without a mention of those with conditions such as yours. It adds to the extreme fear many have. I don't know how you will get round it if this is the message and the scientists and doctors are so uncompromising with their language.

itsmymess
I think the problem is those doctors are correct when they point out the consequences of not wearing masks. That might be difficult for people to come to terms with but the medical community make statements based on their expertise, not whether individuals will feel comfortable with hearing it.

For some people they genuinely cannot wear a mask, but that doesn't mean that the doctors are wrong when they outline the consequences and risk. Someone not wearing a mask is a risk whether they are genuinely exempt or don't feel like wearing one. Covid doesn't know the difference.

There needs to be enough people who can wear a mask, including those who claim they are exempt but would really prefer not to wear one, to reduce the spread enough so that the risk overall of the genuinely exempt is lower because there's fewer maskless people.

@itsmymess Because ultimately, and unfortunately, even those with conditions that mean wearing a mask is impossible do have blood on their hands if they go shopping/use public transport etc without their mask. That’s why in many countries anyone who is unable to wear a mask is required to remain inside. Special arrangements are made for necessary hospital tests, otherwise it’s all online.

OP feels this would be discriminatory and refuses to concede she is more vulnerable to COVID as a result of not wearing a mask despite the scientific consensus on the matter. People are dying. That is more important than someone’s right to be treated perfectly equally to others when they both pose and are at a higher risk of transmission of a virus killing people. Just like blind people can’t drive cars, just like OP couldn’t be a surgeon - significant risk posed to others outweigh individual rights.

I’d be interested to see how commenters on this thread would do on the trolley experiment (the professor side of me has been pondering this since the start).

I’ve been stewing on this because I have a hospital appt this week. On an emotional level, I struggle a lot with people not wearing masks in hospital clinics and waiting rooms. Logically, yes, it’s a person’s legal right to be exempt but the risk to others feels too much. I’ve been to clinics, scans and been in waiting rooms that are small and poorly ventilated. So, even if someone is 2 metres away, it doesn’t bring much comfort!

I have an immune deficiency and chronic lung disease - amongst other fun things - so I’m clinically extremely vulnerable. I feel I have a right to be kept safe when attending my vital medical appointments. Once, they moved me to an isolation room to wait. I didn’t ask, they offered. I think people who are mask exempt shouldn’t be in general waiting rooms.

"Logically, yes, it’s a person’s legal right to be exempt but the risk to others feels too much."

My son is profoundly disabled and cannot keep a mask on anymore than a baby can. It isn't all about legal rights. He had a separate room to wait in at his hospital but I had to push for it. He needs one anyway because of his severe autism but I always have to push to get it.

"That is more important than someone’s right to be treated perfectly equally to others when they both pose and are at a higher risk of transmission of a virus killing people"

Parents with children in school particularly those with lots of children,have a higher risk of transmission. Do we say they have blood on their hands? Do we say the children have blood on their hands?

The doctor was referring to those who choose not to comply.

"That’s why in many countries anyone who is unable to wear a mask is required to remain inside."

Which countries do not allow people who cannot wear masks to not leave the house?

@Underhisi The UAE (you have to wear a mask as soon as you’re outside of your door); Vietnam (in all crowded places eg shopping centres even if open air too); Morocco; Qatar (you have a wear a mask AND a shield in some settings). I’m sure there are more examples too.

I also haven’t seen a single person without a mask in Saudi, Bahrain, or Kurdistan; but didn’t enquire as to the policies. Notably, everyone in my workplace has been vaccinated and still no mask exemptions. Countries I’ve seen a lot of people not wearing masks this year: US, U.K, Libya, Israel (masks worn but on chin and under nose), Palestine, Egypt, Turkey, Iraq, Yemen. When I was in Russia in April, almost no one had a mask. I was there last month, everyone had a mask.

I wouldn't call that list "many" and even for most them it isn't you have to stay inside all the time. They are also on the whole not places I would want to live.

Can I take my dog into a shop with me? No, an employee will prevent my doing so. Pop in for a quick fag? No, as before. Both actions would affect my personal freedom. Both would be unhealthy and affect others adversely. As does not wearing a mask. Good for Costco.

Equating wanting a fag or to take your pet in with you to asking for something to be considered as a reasonable adjustment is a poor argument.

@Underhisi I am on a plane, so those are the ones I’m sure of - China didn’t give exemptions either, so that’s a pretty large chunk of the world’s population combined. I am fairly sure the GCC states all fall into that category too. Notably, most countries who have been strict on masks haven’t had such huge problems with COVID.

As for not wanting to live in those countries? Well, that’s fine with me - people who can’t understand and act in accordance with public health needs aren’t wanted here. I’m just glad my children are safe; MN has made me worry greatly about my parents in the U.K though. I certainly wouldn’t choose to live there again now I have seen such widespread disdain for others’ lives.

I wouldn't want to live in some of those countries because of the way they ( the authorities) are likely to treat people like my child. My child wouldn't be safe and the value of his life wouldn't be considered at all.

@Underhisi I don’t want to derail the thread, but be cautious with your judgements when criticising others for theirs. You may find you are misinformed around how intellectual and physical disabilities are currently approached in some countries. For example, we don’t use the term ‘disabled’ in the UAE: we say ‘persons of determination’ in recognition of how strong they are, along with a battery of free medical and government support.

However, yes, he would remain inside at the moment because of his vulnerability to COVID and potential to spread it further as he cannot wear a mask. We recently contributed to scale military aircraft toys to a weekly box program sent to children shielding: lots is done to make this time easier.

He wouldn't cope with being inside. It would be incredibly distressing for him to be locked inside leading to self injurious and violent behaviour. Some countries made exceptions for people like him and allowed them more time outside than others during the Spring lockdown as a recognition of their needs. Those kept inside without major problems must be on strong drugs.

@Balhammom

There are a phenomenal number of ill informed, and just plain ignorant, post here.

Equalities law does not give you a right to enter commercial premises without a mask if the business directs you to wear one.

There is, of course, now plentiful evidence that wearing a mask reduces droplet transmission.

If anyone believes that their right to equal treatment allows them to expose others to a tangible risk of harm they are as deluded as they are selfish.

(I write this as a employment lawyer who completed her Oxford dissertation on equalities legislation.)

Thank you. This puts it so clearly. some people seem to be in stubborn denial of the situation we are actually in.

@PerveenMistry

I'm trying hard to imagine being the sort of person willing to take a chance on infecting others, just to do my shopping, but failing.

If I couldn't comply with mask wearing I'd hire someone who could to fetch my necessary household purchases.

Everyone has to do his part to stem this nightmare. Everyone.

well put. some of this reminds me of , famous last words; like the person who steps out on to the zebra in front of a lorry, shouting, but i have the right to cross...,

Good for them. Far too many people claiming they can't wear a mask. Fine, don't wear one, just don't expect entry to places that require you to wear one. Simple.