Costco denying entry to mask exempt unless they wear a shield

[LifelsAPigsty]

Surely this is discrimination? Some people who can't wear a mask can't wear a visor either (I can't, I have trigeminal neuralgia and can't tolerate any pressure on my face/head/temples). There are other conditions which make wearing them impossible, too. I'm sure the government guidelines state this sort of action isn't permitted?

I don't shop at Costco personally but I'm so worried other places will follow suit (and no, I can't avoid shops sadly - no delivery slots for months here and I don't drive so no c&c. Also no friends/relatives to shop for me).

Yet another layer of anxiety and worry

@IrmaFayLear

Yes, I posted upthread about a case involving a theme park. A disabled person said it was discriminatory that they were not allowed to ride with the safety bar up. They lost, as their right to ride with the safety bar up impinged on the right of other riders not to have a person flying through the air and hitting them. I think this case is like the mask issue. It’s other people who are affected by the desired liberty of another.

That’s not a good analogy at all. Presumably riding without the safety bar would have put the disabled person at huge risk of injury themselves, as well as the other passengers. In fact, I am surprised that it was construed as a risk to others at all, as the primary risk is definitely to the person without a safety bar.

There is very little evidence that a cloth mask protects either the wearer or those around them. It might have a small benefit but it’s largely psychological and there’s plenty of evidence that suggests it makes no difference at all. The virus can enter through holes in the cloth and it’s unlikely that people observe adequate hygiene standards when handling masks.

Basically, the rest of the world is at no real increase in risk if a disabled person doesn’t wear a mask. However, policies like the one described have a disproportionate negative effect on those with disabilities and are therefore unlawful, no matter what some keyboard warriors (many of whom have school age kids and are therefore much much more likely to have and spread the virus, regardless of wearing masks, than a maskless person).

Again, you are wrong. Not being able to wear a mask is not a disability in itself. That person may have a disability. But they not have one.

And what if 20 people turn up at Costco with a mask exemption? It is about anyone’s ability to spread the virus, no matter what their situation. And mask efficiency is a personal opinion . In my opinion any protection they offer is worth it.

"Again, you are wrong. Not being able to wear a mask is not a disability in itself. That person may have a disability. But they not have one."

Which exemptions on the government list are not covered by the Equality Act?

I would invite you round to take a look at me. I am exempt but not disabled.

Anyway, that is irrelevant. For the millionth time, it’s not about the individual exercising their rights, but about safety of others .

@IrmaFayLear

Again, you are wrong. Not being able to wear a mask is not a disability in itself. That person may have a disability. But they not have one.

And what if 20 people turn up at Costco with a mask exemption? It is about anyone’s ability to spread the virus, no matter what their situation. And mask efficiency is a personal opinion . In my opinion any protection they offer is worth it.

Your personal opinion isn’t backed up by credible evidence though. And some people are exempt so I am afraid you just have to live with the fact that not everyone will have an ineffective bit of cloth over their mouths 🤷‍♀️

Your personal opinion isn’t backed up by credible evidence though. And some people are exempt so I am afraid you just have to live with the fact that not everyone will have an ineffective bit of cloth over their mouths

They will if they want to go in to this shop by the looks of it....

There are a phenomenal number of ill informed, and just plain ignorant, post here.

Equalities law does not give you a right to enter commercial premises without a mask if the business directs you to wear one.

There is, of course, now plentiful evidence that wearing a mask reduces droplet transmission.

If anyone believes that their right to equal treatment allows them to expose others to a tangible risk of harm they are as deluded as they are selfish.

(I write this as a employment lawyer who completed her Oxford dissertation on equalities legislation.)

I'm trying hard to imagine being the sort of person willing to take a chance on infecting others, just to do my shopping, but failing.

If I couldn't comply with mask wearing I'd hire someone who could to fetch my necessary household purchases.

Everyone has to do his part to stem this nightmare. Everyone.

@Balhammom

There are a phenomenal number of ill informed, and just plain ignorant, post here.

Equalities law does not give you a right to enter commercial premises without a mask if the business directs you to wear one.

There is, of course, now plentiful evidence that wearing a mask reduces droplet transmission.

If anyone believes that their right to equal treatment allows them to expose others to a tangible risk of harm they are as deluded as they are selfish.

(I write this as a employment lawyer who completed her Oxford dissertation on equalities legislation.)

A very interesting and informative post from someone in the know. Instead if all the normal gobshights.

Perveen. I SO agree with you. It’s shopping. There are lots of different options whilst we are in the middle of this pandemic-it’s not forever. Online shopping, neighbours doing their shopping, NHS volunteers etc.

Some people though will claim that there are no online slots ever, they don’t know their neighbours, they don’t have any friends, family are not around. They just must have their rights and it doesn’t matter about anyone else.

"I'm trying hard to imagine being the sort of person willing to take a chance on infecting others, just to do my shopping, but failing."

You could apply that to every single person not just those who cannot wear masks. Why are you taking the risk of infecting others.

"If I couldn't comply with mask wearing I'd hire someone who could to fetch my necessary household purchases."

Speaking from a position of privilege I see.

Just to clarify one other point, COVID regulations do provide a carve out where there is reasonable excuse not to wear a mask. Therefore, if someone has a relevant health condition and decides not to wear a mask it is likely that they would not be deemed to break the law.

However, that’s a separate issue as to what businesses may require. A business may just rely on the law and allow the same exemptions, or they could go further and stop anyone from entering without a mask.

COVID regulations do not prevent businesses from imposing their own, stricter requirements on their own premises or require businesses to honour the same exemptions as applicable in the COVID legislation. Any decision by a store to impose additional requirements is likely to be lawful, provided they are either non-discriminatory or any discrimination can be justified (for instance, in order to protect the health of their staff and other customers).

@PerveenMistry

I'm trying hard to imagine being the sort of person willing to take a chance on infecting others, just to do my shopping, but failing.

If I couldn't comply with mask wearing I'd hire someone who could to fetch my necessary household purchases.

Everyone has to do his part to stem this nightmare. Everyone.

I last looked at this thread on Christmas Eve, I really didn't expect it to be still trundling on. And lo! Still we have gems such as this one (a poster I've responded to previously, too).

Altogether now, 1...2...3...

IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT SHOPPING!

Maybe I should also 'hire someone' to go to work for me, too? (Hire someone, indeed. Some people live on a different planet 😂)

@Beautifulbonnie

You seem to of tried everything

Everything you seem to of tried and can’t be done. It seems you need to go out without a mask. Fair enough. But you can do other things. Ok so no food delivery. Go to Amazon. They deliver to pretty much everyone.

Your TN makes you vulnerable

You can ring the supermarkets. They will prioritise you. Your RA makes you vulnerable. You know this. You wouldn’t be lying. It doesn’t shrink you unless you’re on the medication. But it does make you vulnerable.

Again. The Red Cross WILL help you

Again AMAZON can deliver food

The staff need to protect themselves and others around them. It may not be ok. I get that. I recently wasn’t allowed to be in the Apple store. Because I can’t wear a mask. That’s fair enough. I’m exempt with a very visible facial disfigurement. But that’s ok.

If you let me know whether north. South. East or west. I can tell you a charity which can help.

I didn't ask for help, and don't require it. But thank you for your suggestions, they may prove useful to someone who does need help.

@Balhammom

Just to clarify one other point, COVID regulations do provide a carve out where there is reasonable excuse not to wear a mask. Therefore, if someone has a relevant health condition and decides not to wear a mask it is likely that they would not be deemed to break the law.

However, that’s a separate issue as to what businesses may require. A business may just rely on the law and allow the same exemptions, or they could go further and stop anyone from entering without a mask.

COVID regulations do not prevent businesses from imposing their own, stricter requirements on their own premises or require businesses to honour the same exemptions as applicable in the COVID legislation. Any decision by a store to impose additional requirements is likely to be lawful, provided they are either non-discriminatory or any discrimination can be justified (for instance, in order to protect the health of their staff and other customers).

The government guidelines clearly state that nobody should be denied service or entry to shops or public spaces if they are exempt from wearing a mask.

Good on them enforcing Policy.

This thread is about shopping, not employment.

One who is maskless can be served by a shop without entering it, especially in 2021.

i think more stores will be doing this kind of thing. christmas mixing and over 53,000 new cases today....the most in the world

There are only about three posters on this thread who believe that their rights trump everyone else’s. This seems to imply that they are the ones out of step...

I thought of another example: it’s the Blitz and a blackout is ordered. But some people feel they might trip up outside if they don’t put the porch light on. Should they be entitled to do what suits them even if it imperils their neighbours?

” The government guidelines clearly state that nobody should be denied service or entry to shops or public spaces if they are exempt from wearing a mask.”

Guidelines may not be law though. I am genuinely unsure.

@IrmaFayLear

I thought of another example: it’s the Blitz and a blackout is ordered. But some people feel they might trip up outside if they don’t put the porch light on. Should they be entitled to do what suits them even if it imperils their neighbours?

Should people with no vision be permitted to drive on the roadways or perform surgery?

At some point the greater good has to prevail over individual circumstances, however unfortunate those circumstances may be.

**Should people with no vision be permitted to drive on the roadways or perform surgery?

At some point the greater good has to prevail over individual circumstances, however unfortunate those circumstances may be**

@PerveenMistry

True - also when people have certain seizures or certain things that happen to them etc and they have to inform the DVLA as, they may not be allowed to drive.

That must be awful, as it would be very limiting for them, but equally it’s to protect others.

@PerveenMistry

This thread is about shopping, not employment.

One who is maskless can be served by a shop without entering it, especially in 2021.

I'm not sure you've read my posts.

My concern (as I've said 2848668 times here already) is that other places will adopt this policy. And the implications that has for those who are exempt who work in them, and those who are exempt who must use public transport/public spaces and so on.

Not all people cannot work without entering their place of work, or attend medical appointments without entering a GP practice/hospital, or use the bus to get to said places without getting on the bus. Whatever the year.

@IrmaFayLear

I thought of another example: it’s the Blitz and a blackout is ordered. But some people feel they might trip up outside if they don’t put the porch light on. Should they be entitled to do what suits them even if it imperils their neighbours?

Oh look, another Blitz analogy!