Costco denying entry to mask exempt unless they wear a shield

[LifelsAPigsty]

Surely this is discrimination? Some people who can't wear a mask can't wear a visor either (I can't, I have trigeminal neuralgia and can't tolerate any pressure on my face/head/temples). There are other conditions which make wearing them impossible, too. I'm sure the government guidelines state this sort of action isn't permitted?

I don't shop at Costco personally but I'm so worried other places will follow suit (and no, I can't avoid shops sadly - no delivery slots for months here and I don't drive so no c&c. Also no friends/relatives to shop for me).

Yet another layer of anxiety and worry

I have to say I was slightly pissed off with the maskless person stood chatting on their phone in the supermarket aisles tonight. And then consulting with their teenager.

Then you see a little old guy doing his shopping and it seems so bloody thoughtless to be jabbering on indoors in a public place in current circs. Let alone without a mask.

I think Costco are following their membership on this. They are not an ordinary walk in shop but a warehouse for members only.

@MichelleScarn

Legitimate claims can be made to change unlawful policies and compensation awards will depend upon the ‘injury to feelings’ embarrassment and humiliation caused by the experience. So the shame and claim lawyers are on this too? Yes if laws have been breached should be dealt with, but claiming compo?!

They're specialist equality and human rights lawyers.

Any compensation awards are generally very small and swallowed up in the cost of bringing the case. Even if claimants are awarded full costs it never covers everything they have spent.

That's why we're left with not enough EA case law in all sorts of areas. Nobody can afford to bring the necessary cases, or if they can, they are financially cushioned enough not to bother. Nobody discriminates against ££££.

If laws have been breached then someone has been handed the shitty end of the stick and has suffered a detriment. Why shouldn't they receive some sort of compensation from the business that has shat on them?

My DD is registered blind and so, on the advice of the RNIB, is exempt from mask wearing as she has less than 10 per cent vision that is seriously impeded by masks and the concomitant steaming up of her specialist glasses. We - I and she - have come to the conclusion that we agree with the Costco policy (I personally think they have been very bold and brave as a company in stating the new requirements). Look, I’m not disablist, my preteen has one of life’s most debilitating disabilities that will seriously impede her future life and employment chances.

As a family, we have not shopped at Costco since March, as the repeated press photos of the mile-long queues have put us off. As far as we’re concerned, Costco is a luxury rather than essential shop and we can survive without the obligatory Tower of Treats Christmas shop!

Honestly, sticking my head above the parapet very briefly here, in my very recent shopping experiences and observations there’s a type of non-compliant shopper that’s attracted to the discounting stores full-stop. Running away to hide now...

in my very recent shopping experiences and observations there’s a type of non-compliant shopper that’s attracted to the discounting stores full-stop. Running away to hide now

We've had ableism, now we have classism, too.

Gosh this thread gets more and more depressing.

@MichelleScarn

And as am sure the courts would seek the evidence that the exemption is legitimate, why can not this evidence just be provided to those who need it to spare them this rigmarole?

GDPR

It's not lawful for businesses and other orgs to demand information about our medical conditions without a very good reason and usually also upfront explicit consent.

Do you want to bin the GDPR as well as the EA? Any other laws you want to put on this bonfire?

Why should people have to disclose their medical conditions or past trauma to some random bod, who has no clue whether that means they can wear a mask or not, just to get a pint of milk or get on the bus, for the forseeable future?

If you need to change all the laws in order to feel safe then it's probably you who needs to stay indoors.

Now Lang where have I said l want to change laws? This thread and others like it are full of people saying they'd like an exemption card/letter to provide evidence. Why does the response always childishly come down to, 'its you who needs to stay indoors if you don't like...'

@LifelsAPigsty

in my very recent shopping experiences and observations there’s a type of non-compliant shopper that’s attracted to the discounting stores full-stop. Running away to hide now

We've had ableism, now we have classism, too.

Gosh this thread gets more and more depressing.

As a disabled/DLA/free school meals/Universal Credit family, I feel well qualified to comment on my own family experiences without anyone else diminishing them for their own agenda. Why must the disabled and the poor be homogenised into a single thought pathway to suit the prevailing trends, without any regard to the actual individuals? You have selectively quoted to distort my words to fit your agenda which is a diminishing action. My actual words - and those of my blind daughter - ought to be allowed to stand in their entirety.

@MichelleScarn because some people don’t take listening to others points of view well. There’s actually a name for the way you react when presented with ideas that challenge your own beliefs, but at this moment in time the only things I can coherently remember are to do with Christmas

I agree with costco, I can't believe anyone would try to make money out of them by taking them to court when all they are trying to do is protect staff and customers in a pandemic!

Costco will probably then deny and state the poor member of staff who is following management instructions is to blame, the law firm are wanting the name of the member of staff who ask about the mask exemption collect as much information about the experience as you can. What was the name of the person you spoke with and can you prove where you were?

Oh, this is all ridiculous. How many ‘disability’ points do we need to have earned till our voices are heard or are considered valid. I’ll trade you my 12-year-old’s blindness for whatever. I/we are still with Costco. It very definitely is not an emergency/essential shop and, as far as its constitution goes, is a private members’ club. Honestly, I’m not a lawyer, but I’m sure that if it wrote into its membership requirements that everyone had to do a belly dance on a Thursday morning, then that would be ok - provided the membership signed up and agreed.

I/we really hate it when anyone hijacks disabilities to seek the furtherance of their own personal agendas. Not all disabilities are the same and it’s the patronising ‘one-size-fits-all’ attitude that they are that is more depressing than any perceived ‘classism’.

I agree with their policy. I would not agree with a mainstream supermarket doing this because you have to get food form somewhere but somewhere like Costco's is not essential or available to all so I think in this circumstance best cancel the membership and move on.
Everyone has to pull their weight now. I bloody hate the masks and feel like I'm going to pass out when I wear on (not the same as a disability) so I have decided wherever possible I'm just going to stay in, I've registered for online shopping and I'm not going anywhere unless I absolutely have to. If everyone did this potentially this virus situation might also reduce too.
All the best OP but I think it's time to stay in or visit places that more suit your requirements in these circumstances.

@Moominmammaatsea

I understand your point of view, but the point of the OP is if others start taking the same view, lets say all the supermarkets. So you are going to have to hope you can get a home delivery, public transport, lets hope you have car, doctors surgeries. Lets hope you don't need an appointment.

It starts with one, but then where does it stop? We could be looking at another year of masks at least. It might not happen and if so, now people are aware there is a place they can go where people have to work masks and people who can't wear masks are aware that they can't go there. All good, till others start bringing it in.

@MichelleScarn

Costco will probably then deny and state the poor member of staff who is following management instructions is to blame, the law firm are wanting the name of the member of staff who ask about the mask exemption collect as much information about the experience as you can. What was the name of the person you spoke with and can you prove where you were?

Of course they are. In any dispute that has the potential to lead to court action, or even a serious complaint, it's wise to collect as many details as you can. There's no point pursuing a complaint or going to court if your answer to most of the questions you will be asked is 'I don't know'.

If the court decides that the business has acted unlawfully they will then establish whether the 'poor member of staff' was following company policy or whether they just went rogue. That will determine who is liable.

In the case of Costco there is no danger of the 'poor member of staff' being found liable because Costco are publicly and unashamedly declaring their discriminatory company policy. There's a great big receipt in the OP of this thread for starters.

It's very unlikely this would ever reach court anyway. Costco are acting so blatantly unlawfully that a well-worded letter from an interested party would, in all likelihood, cause them to back down and review their policy.

@LifelsAPigsty I just wanted to say I hope you TN goes into remission for you at some point x

Why are people still focusing on shopping when the OP has stated clearly and on several occasions that she also needs to work, use public transport and do the school run etc. If all of these require compulsory mask wearing with no exceptions then basically the OP is fucked.

You have to hope that a vast majority of those posting on this thread never become disabled and encounter people behaving exactly like they are.

Because there is one fairly niche membership warehouse doing this. It will not be happening in buses, trains and Asda.

so at what point would OP agree to sacrifice some of her rights, in a time of international emergency, for the good of everyone, including herself and any workers whose services she might need.
the virus does not stop and swerve away from a maskless person, or refuse to enter them as a carrier to others, in consideration of the fact that person cannot wear a mask.
so maybe that person should step up to the civic responsibility to find other ways of meeting needs, and not enter shops etc.

when most people in uk have been vaccinated, hopefully, this situation will change, then we can resume normal service.
we are a community. we depend on each other for society to function. this sturdy not to say aggressive assertion of individualism is not to the public good at this time.
it is not like adapting buildings etc which might incur a cost or inconvenience for others, eg making everyone walk up a ramp.
the cost benefit analysis is an unseen spreading disease that can cause death, or disability, over against rights of disabled people to be treated the same as everyone in terms of access.
no contest in my view. and i have been involved with caring for several disabled people, and upholding their rights for years.
OP do you not see you yourself would be at great risk if you caught the disease, from the medical devices alone. c-pap etc.

Possibly, but then how many of us thought earlier in the year that it would be illegal for us to meet our friends and family indoors in huge parts of the country, we’d be queuing outside supermarkets, our children wouldn’t be able to go to school and told at times we couldn’t leave our homes apart from a very few exceptions. It’s a real and valid worry for the OP.

@dittodettol

I agree with their policy. I would not agree with a mainstream supermarket doing this because you have to get food form somewhere but somewhere like Costco's is not essential or available to all so I think in this circumstance best cancel the membership and move on. Everyone has to pull their weight now. I bloody hate the masks and feel like I'm going to pass out when I wear on (not the same as a disability) so I have decided wherever possible I'm just going to stay in, I've registered for online shopping and I'm not going anywhere unless I absolutely have to. If everyone did this potentially this virus situation might also reduce too. All the best OP but I think it's time to stay in or visit places that more suit your requirements in these circumstances.

Sounds like wearing a mask causes you extreme distress if you feel unable to visit places if you have to wear one. Such extreme distress that it is affecting your access to places that others can access freely? If it is impacting on your quality of life or ability to do what most people can do then you qualify for exemption. Of course it's up to you if you want to use your exemption.

@MichelleScarn

Costco will probably then deny and state the poor member of staff who is following management instructions is to blame, the law firm are wanting the name of the member of staff who ask about the mask exemption collect as much information about the experience as you can. What was the name of the person you spoke with and can you prove where you were?

It very definitely is not an emergency/essential shop and, as far as its constitution goes, is a private members’ club. Honestly, I’m not a lawyer, but I’m sure that if it wrote into its membership requirements that everyone had to do a belly dance on a Thursday morning, then that would be ok - provided the membership signed up and agreed.

Costco is bound by the Equality Act as an 'Association'. See chapter 12 here:

www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/publication-download/services-public-functions-and-associations-statutory-code-practice

The EA doesn't just apply to 'emergency/essential' shops, it applies to all shops, service providers, employers, education, government services, members' clubs ... That's why it's called the 'Equality Act' and not the 'Throw Them A Few Crumbs Act'.

It's very nice of you to give away your daughter's rights but what will she do when she's an adult and wants to live independently? What will she do when you're no longer around? What should all the other people do who can't wear a mask for the same reason as your daughter? Do you think they all have a mum who can go shopping for them?

Sorry Michelle, didn't mean to quote you in the above post.

@dittodettol

I agree with their policy. I would not agree with a mainstream supermarket doing this because you have to get food form somewhere but somewhere like Costco's is not essential or available to all so I think in this circumstance best cancel the membership and move on. Everyone has to pull their weight now. I bloody hate the masks and feel like I'm going to pass out when I wear on (not the same as a disability) so I have decided wherever possible I'm just going to stay in, I've registered for online shopping and I'm not going anywhere unless I absolutely have to. If everyone did this potentially this virus situation might also reduce too. All the best OP but I think it's time to stay in or visit places that more suit your requirements in these circumstances.

I can't stay in because I have to go to work, medical appointments and so on.

I cannot decide not to go to work, or get my regular blood monitoring done, for example. Others in my position cannot leave DC uncollected from school or elderly parents uncared for, as other examples.

For months (at best), years (at worst).

Expecting disabled people/those with health conditions to stay at home for months, not work and be unable to claim benefits because they left employment voluntarily, and not access medical care is unacceptable and impossible, wouldn't you say?

Thank you lalafafa

@LangClegsInSpace

*GDPR

It's not lawful for businesses and other orgs to demand information about our medical conditions*

Producing a mask exemption certificate does not equal divulging information about a medical condition