To think we have gone collectively insane in our response to covid

[PlumsAreNotTheOnlyFruit]

This is something I have thought for a while. I feel like we are in the grip of insanity when it comes to our response to covid.

We seem to be prepared to destroy our economy, get into massive debt, surrender our freedom and mess up our children's education over covid.

It's a virus which can and will spread, and now seems more virulent than ever. Unless you have a total eradication policy, which is impossible for the UK to implement now anyway, then only mitigation is possible.

All of Europe whatever their policies have been now have many cases. Why do we have to suffer covid AND watch our businesses go under with a potential decade of economic misery.

How many lives have been saved by our policies? Has anyone even done an analysis? We reject cancer drugs because we say they are too expensive for the number of years of life saved. We allow polluting diesel vehicles to drive in urban areas despite the 40,000 who die each year from the effects of air pollution. Why is covid different?

I am cross that we haven't thrown everything at expanding health care capacity since March and instead have spent our money paying people not to work after closing things down.

Right now I feel that the virus will continue to spread whatever we do and that that our focus should be on shielding the most vulnerable until they can be vaccinated. I realise that isn't likely to be 100% effective but neither are our present policies.

I thought lockdowns were necessary to stop deaths? We're now saying they're necessary to stop post viral syndrome/fatigue? Where do we draw the line?

hollyangel It's both. Where I live we had a successful strict lockdown that worked to reduce both caseload and deaths to zero. It did, and now we are virtually free of restriction.

@Puddingypops

And if that 3-4% of people who die now becomes kids because of the new strain would you still hold the same views?

3- 4% of people don't die though. Nowhere near.

@Carrotcakeforbreakfast

Vintagevixen

2018 flu season I remember it well but it was nothing like this.
They believe that year flu attributed to 22k deaths.

Yes - remember it well, so many colleagues out of work. We were really stretched.

Do you remember the millennium too? That was quite bad for flu as well. Didn't nurse through swine flu as was on mat leave so not sure how bad that was - though baby DD did manage to get it!

When does democracy start to kick in again?

MPs must vote on something soon or are we held to ever increasing restrictions without their input

But your lives will stop if you let that minority all become sick

I know it's crap but life is shit sometimes

I completely agree OP. You're not allowed to say this in real life though, and I don't really understand why not. Surely some people in the media must also think this.

The education can be salvaged, not seeing family is rubbish but can also be survived, but the economy is what worries me the most. They say we are doing this to save the nhs, but if the economy is decimated then how do we fund the nhs by this time next year? How do we fund anything without taxes coming in through restaurants, pubs, cinemas, bowling alleys, clubs, hotels, spas, high street shops?

I agree OP. And I think a lot of people think this, even if they aren't being loud and proud about it.

Been watching this thread with interest and in particular the exchange between @queenofknives and @ForestNymph. I'm 100% with you both. Especially this:

It terrifies me. I've always highly valued liberty and autonomy. The fact some people are so willing to not only lick the boot but to deepthroat it sickens me. Its disgusting.

And this:

It is shocking to see in action what I have only read about in history books. It really does make the rise of totalitarian regimes more explicable when you realise that people want it, invite it, are enthusiastic about reporting on each other and take all their existing freedoms as absolutely granted while happily giving away rights they don't want others to have.

It's points like these that go beyond the incessant doomsaying and scaremongering into a fear I believe is legitimate. Freedoms willingly relinquished are very difficult to get back. People who do this complacently do so at their own peril. They'll doubtless be the only ones surprised when they are first to blink in the daylight asking where those liberties have gone and when they'll be coming back.

Peaceful protest is now illegal. Were the Covid-Prefects around when the powers that be sneaked that one through, and did they even notice? A bloke is spending weeks incarcerated for leaving an island on a jet ski. What happens when strict limitations are not imposed on such law, because people have become desensitised to their imposition?

The reason despots like Hitler et al wielded the power they did is because people voted for them. As the saying goes, 'those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it'.

I still don't agree with protecting the vunerable and let the rest of us get on with it mentality given that people from all walks of life including children are vunerable and shouldn't have to be locked up as a result. My own DC haven't been able to return to school (despite the government trying to force cev children and children with cev parents into classrooms where its running rampant) and pretty much haven't left the house apart from a walk around an empty park for months and it also seems young children aren't going to be vaccinated despite being vunerable so we just have to do this forever now do we so everyone else can get back to normal ?

I also note a difference in the past number of weeks of the amount of young (including children) without underlying conditions that are ending up extremely ill in hospital and coming out with long term health conditions as a result ive heard of this multiple times in my small circle in the last number of weeks and had barely heard of anyone with covid before then ! The worry is the NHS will not be able to look after these people in the future either with no money as a result of the restrictions in place therefore affecting jobs and taxes etc
But i do agree that this cycle of lockdowns is ridiculous and there has to be another solution to this but unfortunately I feel the poor handling from the start has left it almost impossible to have a robust test and trace and quarantine system in place to control this as best we can so it's not spreading so rapidly.
I don't profess to know the solution maybe just more compliance in general and acceptance that things can't be 'normal' for a long time but if we all ensure we 2m social distance at all times and some changes in schools that we can avoid lockdowns. Very small changes that yes impact a persons life but staying 2m away from family really has to be better than chucking peoples livlihoods down the drain.
TBH i do feel that is where the issue lies, I could count on one hand the amount of people truly following all the basics even if they think they are there is still a lot of mixing without social distancing between family and friends....this idea of bubbles....everybody i know is in multiple bubbles they have just completely created as many bubbles as they want to have but then when someone in the bubbles is sick the others aren't self isolating either because they don't live in the same household despite mixing together as though they do !
But then do I blame them after all the mixed messages and backtracking from the government, I'm not sure I can anymore !

@MummaBear4321

The education can be salvaged, not seeing family is rubbish but can also be survived, but the economy is what worries me the most. They say we are doing this to save the nhs, but if the economy is decimated then how do we fund the nhs by this time next year? How do we fund anything without taxes coming in through restaurants, pubs, cinemas, bowling alleys, clubs, hotels, spas, high street shops?

No it cannot be salvaged for children. They miss out on what they miss out on.

Any decision to remove education should be looked with honesty. Adults putting themselves before children.

Yes exactly, this approach is wrong. We should have aimed for eradication in February, short hard economic pain and we could be partying by now

But too many people said oh no we couldn't do that it would hurt , so now we have much bigger pain

@midgebabe

Yes exactly, this approach is wrong. We should have aimed for eradication in February, short hard economic pain and we could be partying by now

But too many people said oh no we couldn't do that it would hurt , so now we have much bigger pain

What a shame you weren’t there to override WHO in Jan /Feb.

The fatality rate is around 1%, if everyone in the UK caught it then that would be c. 680k deaths

But most people wouldn’t catch it. It’s a virus. Like Spanish flu not everyone caught it as there comes a point the virus kills so many and those that survive are immune so it has no where to go.

How many deaths do you think this virus will ultimately be responsible for. The cancer patients who can’t access treatment or testing, the suicides when people realise they have lost everything. The rise in dementia cases because people can’t get out and be socially active and many many more people who die because of reasons associated with this virus.

The figures I don’t think will ever be known. But I reckon it wouldn’t be much difference to if we just got on with things.

I know Dmil in moments of clarity wants to die. She hates her life. When she got Covid she hoped she would not recover as she isn’t living. But she hardly got sick.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

I’d live in a police state for 6 months to get on top of it.

We need to look to countries that are eradicating it and follow their lead. Or just sit around waiting for vaccines for ever.

I don’t think we should let it rip through society, l think suspension of some civil liberties for 6 months to nail it would be the best option. I’m tired of living like this.

There was something about South Korea where they tracked someone via credit card useage. This is what l mean. I don’t mean China nailing people into houses.

Proper paid quarantine
Data tracking
Enforced mask wearing

One of the problems with this is that it wouldn’t end after 6 months. If people were so compliant (scared) that it could happen in the first place, then the government (or the people controlling them) would be able to do whatever they wanted.

Adults putting the long term future of society before short term educational needs ?

If there is no strong social and economic country , all the education in the world won't help the children

@drizzlenanddamp

''

But there was a thread on here questioning “freedom passports” and everyone said done be stupid people won’t be stopped from going to work/school. Yet the government are investing in “an exploratory app” that will do just that. No one invests in something like that just for interest, a total loss of civil liberties is coming down the track like a train.

I used to totally trust in authority until I became subject to it now I’m sceptical as all hell!''

I completely agree with this. Things are happening now that when conspiracy theorists spoke about them
In March I said they were insane!

What concerns me with protecting the NHS is that possibly lockdowns and the subsequent economic effects are going to knacker it anyway.

Huge economic downturn from lockdown equals less tax etc revenue collected by the Treasury. NHS is funded from government revenue - I do feel this might spell the start of the end unfortunately.

Also get a bit annoyed by being labelled a "Covid denier" just because I have a different viewpoint - I am very aware Covid is a real thing. Know tons of people who have had it, one death from it, one ITU admission from it. Obviously have nursed a lot of it.

Just think a lot of the response to it has been madness and people have been terrified - I have a friend who wouldn't even go for a walk out of her house for months in March! I mean, a solitary walk down a country lane isn't going to put you at risk, but she was terrified.

Surely there is room for different viewpoints in a debate?

@Vintagevixen no I don't remember 2000 and I too was on mat leave for swine flu.

@MarshaBradyo I am a teacher. Trust me. It can be salvaged.

Also, for older kids, missing out on studying An Inspector Calls in year 10 wont effect their job prospects in 5 years time, believe me. Younger kids, yes, it will hit their reading and writing, but it can be salvaged by parents spending some time every evening doing some work with them. Its fixable. Lets face it, 30 mins with a parent is probably more 1 to 1 time than they get daily in school.

OP this is the reason you're not an expert in anything. The world is very complicated and you don't understand any of it. You don't understand economics, you don't understand epidemeology, you don't understand the heathcare system. Your opinions are pointless as a result.

I read this article on the BBC about Coronovirus in Africa. Surely this disagrees with the theory that there would be bodies piled on the streets with no lockdown?

Zero lockdown in Soweto and no massive spike in deaths.

www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-55333126

Also Sweden. Would any of the medical
Professionals on the the thread be able to explain why a country like Sweden with v little restrictions and no mandated mask wearing have broadly the same deaths per capita as other countries who've spent billions, enforced masks and had severe lockdowns?

I completely agree with this. Things are happening now that when conspiracy theorists spoke about them In March I said they were insane!

Anyone who questions anything that the government does (unless it is calling for stronger restrictions) is damned as a conspiracy theorist.

It's most curious.

@hollyangel

Seriously? It always suprised me how ignorant people can be. Are you seriously incapable of understanding why this isn't in any way similar to the UK. Good god! I mean fair enough not everyone is good at science or statistics but in that case leave it to people who are!

[quote MummaBear4321]@MarshaBradyo I am a teacher. Trust me. It can be salvaged.

Also, for older kids, missing out on studying An Inspector Calls in year 10 wont effect their job prospects in 5 years time, believe me. Younger kids, yes, it will hit their reading and writing, but it can be salvaged by parents spending some time every evening doing some work with them. Its fixable. Lets face it, 30 mins with a parent is probably more 1 to 1 time than they get daily in school.[/quote]
I'm a psychologist and I disagree that you can salvage child development so easily. Yes, it is not about studying an Inspector Calls that is the problem, but the multitude of developmental needs children have, including free play, that can have lasting and possibly permanent damage.