Christmas - for those with a terminally ill relative

[CarriesFlower82]

Please can you talk to me about whether you will be abiding by Tier 4 rules this Christmas if you have a terminally ill relative?

I don’t want to say too much as it could be outting, but I have a seriously ill parent. End stage liver disease and a host of other medical problems. They have been in and out of hospital all year but increasingly over the past three months. We have been told the medication and treatment plan is not working. The condition will only deteriorate and likely a year left.

We are all now Tier 4, a 15 min drive from each other. We’ve seen each other frequently during the year as my parents have provided childcare and also when things have taken a bad turn with this patent’s health, we’ve met up to support each other. Please don’t flame me, there have been so many times in the past three months we thought they wouldn’t even make it through the night. It's been frightening and hard for us all.

The plan was to stay at my parents for three nights over Christmas knowing this is their last one. I am sure people think I’m being over the top and should suck it up, but it was the last chance for a proper family Christmas, in my childhood home, grandparents both together and with their grandchildren. I can’t help but feel sentimental and upset. I don't have the luxury of saying we can do it next year, there is no next Christmas for them.

They want to go ahead and see me, DS11 months and DD4, but I’m wracked with guilt and feel so uncomfortable about doing this. We've been isolating as have they so it's not the risk that bothers me, that's always been there and the parent's view is they are dying anyway. At the same time my heart is breaking because I know I will loose them soon and this is little get together is all that has been keeping them going. I’m worried they will give up but I just feel so uncomfortable going ahead.

No real answers, whatever I do I’m going to feel upset. I’m so sick of this year and so unhappy.

Go ee them OP. Have one last "normal" Christmas together. Last Christmas both my parents were in good health, now they have both gone (one to Covid, one to a very aggressive cancer). The memory of Christmas 2019 will be one that I will always treasure. You may spend next Christmas full of grief don't add guilt to it as well.

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I would go but don’t stay if you are only 15 minutes away. If they are as ill as you say that might be too much for them with young children

@C0NNIE

I have a different view from everyone else.

Our dear friends were in the situation a few months ago, so I know what it’s like and my heart goes out to you and your family.

In your situation I wouldn’t go, unless the whole household visiting can self isolate for 14 days before you go. I would be afraid that I’d take Covid to my relative, which could lead to their death now, when they perhaps have a year left.

My friend who had cancer obeyed all the rules for this reason, until she knew she only had a few weeks left. At that point, all her children and grandchildren visited her freely and some of her children stayed over to provide care, which allowed her to stay at home until the end, surrounded by her family.

The harsh reality is that if you give Covid to your parent, they will have to be admitted to hospital where they will be alone and perhaps die alone. If they pass it on to their spouse before they are admitted to hospital . that person won’t be with them at the end because they won’t be allowed into the hospital.

My other friend's relatives are in that situation now . Both Covid positive - he ( 88) is at home with relatively minor symptoms and she ( 92) is dying in hospital, unable to hear him on the phone or see him on an iPad. They have no children and only the niece is able / willing to see her.

It’s no way to go after more than 60 years of marriage.

You have no idea what it’s like; it’s your friends not your parent

Please go, OP. No one will judge you, I promise.

My friend who had cancer obeyed all the rules for this reason, until she knew she only had a few weeks left. At that point, all her children and grandchildren visited her freely and some of her children stayed over to provide care, which allowed her to stay at home until the end, surrounded by her family.

It was a valid concern not to take Covid on a vulnerable immunosuppressed person. But that’s what your friend wanted, C0nnie. In this case, OP’s mum wants a Christmas with her family. Her decision.

I wish I’d hugged my mum more. I wish my children had. Can’t get that time back, and if she’d asked me to come for Christmas I’d move he’ll or high water to make it so.

From gov.uk current updated:

“Medical reasons, harm and compassionate visits
You can leave home for any medical reason, including to get a COVID-19 test, for medical appointments and emergencies, to be with someone who is giving birth, to avoid injury or illness or to escape risk of harm (such as domestic abuse),or for animal welfare reasons – such as to attend veterinary services for advice or treatment.

You can also leave home to visit someone who is dying or someone in a care home (if permitted under care home guidance), hospice, or hospital, or to accompany them to a medical appointment.”

I would do it op. A terminally ill parent grumps pretty much everything.

My aunt died in September(cancer we didn't know she had it) and I'm so sad about the 4 months earlier in the year that she sat alone in her own home. If we'd known I'd have completely ignored the rules about not mixing households.

Thank you so much all and I'm so sorry to those going through similar, having to make these heart wrenching decisions and those who have lost loved ones.

To the person who said work on my self esteem, I think that is definitely true to an extent.

The main reason we are staying is that my husband and I currently don't have a car (another story!). So it's actually easier for my sister to pick us up and stay. However, not going to lie, my parents just want everyone there. This is how we usually do Christmas and other celebrations.

The risk element is not the issue to us. We've all made our own assessment throughout and as I say they have provided childcare throughout. We've all been home since Monday with no mixing or trips out except to the park or woods where we haven't been close to anyone.

Both parents used to provide weekly childcare for me, so well aware of how young children can be! The ill parent won't have to do much - there are enough of us that we can manage the kids and also cook the dinner. They are still mobile and "able", just on a lot of medication and also with a catheter. The plan is they can chill out on the sofa and just watch it all, but another reason for being in my parents home is that if they get tired they can go and sleep or rest. It's a four bedroom house with two reception rooms, so plenty of room for all of us if anyone needs space (not a stealth boast before someone jumps on me for that!)

I don't think a support bubble can get together over Christmas and I am technically not a carer for the parent and neither is anyone else there. As far as I can see it would just be rule braking which is what I feel so uncomfortable with.

I am so racked with guilt and keep crying. This year has been so hard, my mat leave has been difficult and I've struggled with two kids and this parent's illness. I just feel desperately sad. I feel like I'm not going to enjoy it whatever I do. It's such a shitty situation.

Look, visiting your parents is low risk (as you've been isolating), legal (given one is terminally ill), and what they want. It is clearly the right thing to do. Stop tearing yourself apart over it and do it. You are not going to get in trouble for this.

@CarriesFlower82 😔 You can do this. You have already dealt with all that other shit over the year including having a young baby and ill parent.

Let go of the guilt now and ask yourself, what would you say to a friend in your situation?

So sorry that you find yourself in this heartbreaking situation OP. For what it is worth, I would do it without question, and I wouldnt feel any guilt doing so.

You will enjoy it, OP. It will be lovely. Don’t focus on the ‘rule-breaking’. I don’t think anyone will think badly of you or report you.

Has your sister been isolating too? Will you be mixing with people afterwards?

You have been isolating. Absolutely do it, don't feel guilty.

I would go - who cares if you get a fine? It will be worth it, wouldn’t it?

Please just do it, enjoy it and don't feel guilty
It sounds like a lovely set up and just like our family Christmases always were.
I do not think you will regret it
But if you miss your relatives last Christmas and cause them distress that will be much worse.

If anyone reported you for this they would be the idiot and not you.
The police are not going to come knocking.

Mumsnet is generally a pretty good barometer of opinion and nearly everyone on this thread thinks you should do this and not worry.

Do it. You have been isolating. We haven’t so it will be Xmas day with support bubble person and that’s it. Outdoor walks with grandparents, playground with friends are all scrapped, but we’ll do it when restrictions are lifted.

Without hesitation.

Our dear friends were in the situation a few months ago, so I know what it’s like

No you really don't.

My FiL ECV now has 3 different types of cancer and this Xmas will be his last. DH was going to go and see him on 27th with adult dgs. Now he has to decide whether to go or not. Mil is 80 and quite frail do worried about infecting her too. He probably won't go as both in-laws will get vaccination in January so most likely will wait until they have had the injection. DH says he won't be able to forgive himself if he gives infection to his parents who have been in house and not been out once since March. We will ring them, they can't do Skype. I think when illness is terminal you have to choose what you can live with. You will be one left behind. The fact we hear 1 in 3 of all cases are asymptomatic is what scares DH. He feels it is too big a risk for him to take but feels really bad because they will be alone for Xmas. We get deliveries of shopping delivered to them and chemist drops off medication but they are lonely. It is so hard.

Dear OP, I lost a parent who had stage 4 cancer but died from Covid pneumonia in April.

You can reasonably go as you planned, lots of people here are saying, in different ways, that the exceptions are designed for critical situations like your own.

Give your dying parent a chance to love and comfort you. Allow them to give their ‘parting gifts’ and memories.

I feel the presence and care of my departed parent with me through truly dreadful times over the last few months and also often shed a few tears as I am doing now. I am so glad for you that your parent is able to be there, mobile though tired, able to rest as necessary.

Cherish this time as best you can, I will think of you and your dear family on Christmas Day and my loss will be easier to bear thinking of you together.

🎄✨

I've been living in the West Country with my parents since March. They're both 93, very frail, and since a fall in May my DM has been in a hospital bed in the sitting room with carers coming 5 times a day. I do meals and drinks. I'm amazed they've made it this far. We nearly lost my mum 10 days ago but an antibiotic drip sorted her.

I normally live with one DS on Surrey. The other lives nearby. One has had to shield for months because he's ECV and WFH, the other, who is unemployed, has been doing so in preparation for Xmas. I have missed them terribly.

Christmas has been so much looked forward to and we have done everything we could to make it safe.

They have decided to come anyway. They're driving. Even my mum's carers agree.

We've obeyed all the rules so far but this is too much.

Go xxx

@PrawnofthePatriarchy

I hope you all have a happy Christmas together and that your parents pass peacefully when their time comes. You are a very devoted and loving daughter - I couldn’t do what you have done.

Respect.

@CarriesFlower82

All Im seeing everywhere is how selfish people are being for doing their own thing and how they're making it worse for everyone. I don't want to be that person or people to think that of me.

Nobody will know or care. Just do it.