Why do people keep saying that others are prolonging this?

[Raiseny]

It’s driving me mad! It’s a virus! Socialising isn’t prolonging it or setting us back, it’s making it risky for the nhs to manage. Of course that’s something we need to consider but wake up! There’s other illnesses, mental health being key here, that matter.

The virus isn’t going away. Tiers or no tiers. It’s a virus! It mutates, as all Coronaviruses do. I’m so sick of the virtue signalling like meeting a friend for a coffee has caused the virus to stay around longer. It hasn’t.

Stop making people feel bad for needing their friends and family enough to risk transmission. Am I really on my own with this?!

I didnt bring your husband into this you did.
You were the one bought taking people out into this.
I didnt call your kids bastards.
I would never call any child that, I was one, I thought that slur had died in the 90s.

Obviously i dont want children to die.
Infering that to another mother is quite disgusting in my opinion.
Yes I am angry.
Because I can't work.
Which means I cant make money.
Which then means my lovely brat cant get what he wants for christmas.
And im struggling to pay bills.
Beacause people will not do what theyre supposed to be doing.
please dont lecture me about poverty.
Ive been a single parent for 10 years. I know what poverty is.
One word.
Maybe go back to my op and find something you can understand rather than jumping on one four letter word.

@Mrsmorton

Op. You need to rephrase your question. I've been living like a monk since March. Am now in tier 4. I know I'm not fucking passing the virus on so someone else must be.

Exactly. Same here.

We need to control the virus so that people with other serious conditions eg strokes can have treatment as well as those who need routine operations. We also need to protect workers needed to keep our country going. A shortage of emergency services workers, delivery drivers, people who can maintain utilities... would be catastrophic.

Viruses are spread by people and it is scientific fact that you can reduce chances of transmission by doing things like keeping contacts to a minimum, social distancing etc Some people believe it's a hoax so do what like and their opinions and behaviour affect everyone. If their opinion only affected them that would be fine but they pose a risk to everyone.

People virtue signalling is tiresome and boring. I don't want to hear it - especially when their self isolation is due to other people making risks and going to work.

I'd like to hope that most people are doing their best and would help others who needed them even if it was against the rules. The rules aren't equally hard for everyone and don't help everyone but I don't want to imagine a world where the people I depend on can't work because so many are sick.

It's scapegoating which is what you get in most authoritarian regimes whether it be jews, disabled people, students, children, people going to the beach, people wearing mask under their nose etc. It's the same idea as the two minute hate in 1984 - people get angry with other people to deflect anger at the government.

We know that the virus is mostly spread in institutions e.g. hospitals, care homes, schools, prisons, some workplaces. It is endemic in the UK and has probably been so for over a year. Even if we all followed every rule to the letter it would still be here.

If we had let is spread more earlier on, particularly over the summer when hospitals weren't overwhelmed, we would probably (for better or worse) be closer to being out of this than we are now.

@Raiseny
I agree with you. Its mad that people think it will go away if we all stay still. Lockdowns are a blunt tool for stopping movement but they can only be used for a short period of time to REDUCE but not emiminate the virus. Lockdowns have other costs too, economy, mental health etc but they are not as immediate and visual as graphs fed to you on the news daily plus the narrative that you are 'selfish' if you go out etc.
We also have a preoccupation with preventing elderly death. Why? The quality of life of many people who died was very poor. Would you want to be ventilated with dementia?
State any of the above and you are seen as a granny killing, conspiracy theorist who is against common sense and public good.
I totally get you. The virus will be here in February 2021 and in October 2021 and probably after that too. You cannot lockdown all the time. Its a useful diversion from Brexit which is going to be a much worse situation for you in the UK and thats permanent. Im in Ireland and watching brexit and how easily you give up your rights with horror.
Life is for living.

@Jakey056 are you in Northern Ireland? I thought the situation was much the same there, is it not? Can you have Christmas with family?

I’m not a conspiracy theorist at all. I don’t think there’s an agenda. I do however think it is absurd when people say ‘when this is all over’ like there will be an end date in sight. The virus is here to stay in some form or other, vaccination or no vaccination. There is an obsession with the elderly and ironically the elderly in the main want to live their life not spend it locked up! There is no ‘when this is over’ - yes it will become less harmful and perhaps even harmless but if people think it will have disappeared by this time next year they are deluded. If there’s no push back then I bet we will be having the same conversations next autumn.

@Raiseny
No I am in the South.
The issue with the North is you have 4x times the population density as south, significant income disparity and tribal politics one side of which is very religious and so is a bit unscientific.
The south is the same as UK tho, poor data, reluctance to be pragmatic and accept that the virus is pretty much uncontrollable, non investment in health for decades which the govt is now trying to cover up and pass the buck to the citizens.
In UK and Ireland there are four things to resolve:

1. Hospital acquired infection rates because of
2. Healthcare workers not being tested
3. Community transmission although this is very much less that 1 and 2 above
4. Test and trace and border/incoming visitors

They need to work with these and resolve them. In ireland for example all our border counties are 6 x tines higher rates of infection because of N.Ireland. so either co operate and manage together or close the border. Govt here has done as ypurs has - pushed the blame onto people who blame and shout down anyone with a pragmatic view as you have. Its my view that thoae people are the ones perpetuating this as they are taking part in activites that will not stop the virus, only delay it.

The only way we could have "locked down properly" to supress the virus the would have been for every single person including ICU staff, food distribution, emergency services, utilities to "stay the fuck at home" as people so eloquently liked to put it. It would have killed far more people than the virus at that point and would be clearly unethical.

Indeed other countries such as Spain and France locked down harder and are still in a similar state.

The virus spreads with human connections and we cannot prevent that and keep society existing.

I socialise in a minimal, outdoors way. I don't work and I was crumbling 6 months ago because of the absence of social connections beyond a DH WFH on the phone all day, and autistic 9 yo and a 7 yo obsessed with pokemon. My 7 yo has been depressed without access to play with NT children of his own age.

Most people are muddling through trying to survive with some sanity left in tact. We need to stop blame games and moralising over how a virus spreads.

We have to live with with the virus. We can not deny the needs of society for a prolonged period which is looking like a year before substantial improvement.

And what of Christmases in the future. Will we be permanently berated for risking granny's life with colds/ flu/ sickness bugs? Will we always have to exist for 6 months to prolong existence at the cost of quality of life? (I bloody well hope not)

housemdwaswrong Sun 20-Dec-20 00:27:46 Because people have given up a lot to follow the guidance, and others haven't bothered maybe?
Exactly this. Some follow the guidance, some seem to think the guidance doesn't apply to them and carry on as if covid doesn't exist. Then my whole area gets moved up a tier as numbers are going up. Now we're in tier 4 and I can't help but think if more people followed the guidance the situation would be getting better and not worse.

People saying that the virus spreads whether we follow the guidance or not then none of us need to follow the guidance because I'm sick of doing it when others aren't.

@BogRollBOGOF
I agree.
Thats very difficult for you but I share your view. We just have to do the best we can.
A ling time ago I studied viruses in a foresaken biology career.
They are amazing and adept. If people saw how they were able to infect and mutate they would realise what a folly lockdowns are.
I really wish you well. We all just have to do our best.
X

@housemdwaswrong

But they've only had treatment at the expense of everything else. Hospitals have shut down routine surgeries and clinics to accommodate covid... now, even that's not enough. My surgery was supposed to be February, and I haven't had a routine 3 monthly appt with my consultant for a year.

So if it's here to stay, what would you suggest we do? Nothing?

If everyone in the world stayed still for one month the virus would die.

So yes, people do prolong the virus by providing with new hosts to keep it alive.

Sorry @housemdwaswrong that reply was not supposed to be to you. Don't know what happened there

@catpyjamas
I think regardless of lockdown the virus juat works as it does. You can slow it but not stop it.
Govts everywhere are looking up the hill at an avalanche and telling people to stay at home in the path of the avalanche. It still hits them. Berating people (not you!) Is pointless as it will roll on as it is supposed to until it burns out or gets vaccinated out. Im not hopeful on vaccine front either due to mutation.

Why is granny socialising with people who could have the virus? Talk about irresponsible. If Granny is going to insist on socialising with her family, well then, it's tough luck and her fault if she gets covid and dies.

Ok, that's a bit tongue in cheek but why do we only blame the younger folk? You know, those of us who HAVE to go to work?

The NHS of the future is fucked due to furlough, because the UK have no fucking money after getting in to mega debt paying people to "stay the fuck at home".

@SpnBaby1967
Your big issue is not covid but brexit and I think your Govt are really not thinking about the effects this will have on your country long term. Agree re granny and social bubble. People cannot have it all and must accept risk. Society cannot shut down to absolve that risk.

@Jakey056 Brexit is a fucking joke and much worse for this country than covid. But, the government love to do anything that'll distract us from that fact

@SpnBaby1967
I agree. It is so bad for you for trade and development. I have watched with a dropped jaw for the past four years.

But what’s the lesser of two evils? People suffering or people dying?

People die all the time from lots of different things. Why are COVID deaths so particularly important? If we reported every case and death from flu, pneumonia etc every year it would be pretty overwhelming too. But we don’t.

Completely agree with you OP.

Following the rules is helping to protect the NHS it doesn't mean that following the rules will help to 'get rid of' the virus. The virus is here to stay no matter what we do, it isn't going anywhere unfortunately!

People who fixate on socialisng as the primary means of transmission (and demonsises anyone who dares visit a loved one) need to really consider all human interaction since March. Really think about it. How does an NHS receptionist or construction worker get to work? How many people are sales assistants in contact with per day? The van driver who delivered your Amazon packages this morning, and your Tesco driver this afternoon - where have they been? Who have they spoken with, in order to load your goods? The people working in fields and food packaging plants and living in close proximity. Airline workers, staff at airports , childminders, nursery staff, teachers. Carers in old people's homes and those who community carers.
Really think about it. What's the percentage of daily social interaction that is actually keeping the country running, compared to the several times a year lunch with an elderly mum. Give your heads a wobble.

Really think about it. What's the percentage of daily social interaction that is actually keeping the country running, compared to the several times a year lunch with an elderly mum. Give your heads a wobble.

My neighbour (who is a driving instructor) is collecting her elderly mother from a care home, taking her to a shop to 'pick out her tea' and then bringing her to neighbour's house to cook, eat the tea and social before sister arrives with her partner and children and then that evening taking elderly mother back to the care home. This happens twice per week. How many people's lives are these selfish people putting at risk?
Another elderly neighbour is making his way to a local shop every day he also has numerous relatives collecting him to take him to the shop 'in the car' several times per week and he also has the local council delivering food parcels into his home every 2 weeks because he's claiming he doesn't have access to food. How many people's lives are these selfish people putting at risk?
You can't compare selfish people's actions to people who are actually doing a helpful job.

Spreading it would actually get it over with more quickly.

It’s has an IFR OF 1% so that means 660,000 people in the U.K. are likely to die from it. 90% of them over 75. I personally don’t see the difference if that happens in 12 months or 48 months. But frankly, 12 months and we could get back to normal after taking the hit.

Stopping the spread and dragging it OU just makes it worse for the 99% of survivors

I don’t think we are saying covid deaths are more or less important than other deaths. I thought it was more about making sure that the nhs wasn’t overwhelmed. Because that wouldn’t just mean people with covid who could have otherwise been saved dying but anyone who needs hospital treatment. You’re in a car crash? Sorry, there’s no one to help you. Heart attack/stroke - take your chances.

Also, how can socialising not assist in the spread of covid? I genuinely can’t understand that.