Is the stay at home order actually law?

[Minaun]

As per the title. Having a heated discussion at the moment. Is this the law or just advisory?
Thank you.

[quote Lurkingforawhile]@snowballer fair question. For me the lowest risk walk is one where I encounter as few people as possible. I live in an urban area, but half a mile away is a rural area where we have a few known routes which are very quiet. We found two where we never see another person. The other option would be to drive half an hour to the other side of the urban area where there is a tier 4 quiet rural area. That was plan b, but I’m going with plan a to avoid the longer drive as it’s legal to do so.[/quote]
Fair response too! (Fairly sure though the regs still say you can't leave your area).

I'm not in tier four, but it's best just to check a .Gov source.

Reading a papers sight last night, you can travel to buy food. Boris said the new strain was terrifying.

I suspect that neither was a direct quote but who knows, I didnt know it was on TV so didnt watch it

Sorry paper said you CANT travel to buy food. Which can not be true. Artist licence and all that

@snowballer I was looking for where it said you couldn't leave your area but but couldn't find it. Can anyone point me in the right direction in the regulations? www.gov.uk/guidance/tier-4-stay-at-home?priority-taxon=774cee22-d896-44c1-a611-e3109cce8eae

Genuine question - if the new strain and the current situation is as bad as the medical/scientific community is saying, why would it matter if it were law or regulations? Why wouldn’t you do everything you can to prevent catching and/or spreading it?

Sorry - that was the guidance!

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1611/pdfs/uksi_20201611_en.pdf

@SameO1d I think the answer is that guidance and legislation can't cope with every individual scenario, and so where you can reduce risk you should do so, even if that's by doing not what the guidance says. For example should my friend travel one mile or 15 miles to the nearest supermarket? The first one is in tier 4, and she's in tier 2 just across the border. The second is in tier 2 in her county. For more details her children also go to school in the tier 4 area. Guidance says drive 15 miles, the law doesn't say she needs to do that (I think). I would choose the short journey.

The issue is that our boundaries are somewhat arbitrary, and most people know what they consider to be their community but that might not be the same council area.

[quote Lurkingforawhile]@snowballer I was looking for where it said you couldn't leave your area but but couldn't find it. Can anyone point me in the right direction in the regulations? www.gov.uk/guidance/tier-4-stay-at-home?priority-taxon=774cee22-d896-44c1-a611-e3109cce8eae[/quote]
"Travel
Travelling within a tier 4 area
If you live in a tier 4 area, you must stay at home. You must not leave your home to travel unless for work, education or other legally permitted reasons. If you need to travel you should stay local - meaning avoiding travelling outside of your village, town or the part of a city where you live - and look to reduce the number of journeys you make overall."

@DailyPotion that’s the guidance. I was asking about the legislation

@DailyPotion even though I confused matters by posting the wrong link!!

I'll try and get it right this time! Is there anything in the regs that talks about not leaving tier 4 if you are carrying out one of the activities in the reasonable excuse clause? www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1611/pdfs/uksi_20201611_en.pdf

I seem to remember there was a limit to the amount of times you could exercise in the first lockdown - once or twice a day, whereas now it’s unlimited.

@DfEisashambles once again that wasn't in the legislation but once a day was in the guidance previously.

@Lurkingforawhile

this stuff ?? page 4 to page 9 ??

Tier 4 restrictions
PART 1
Restrictions on movement
Restrictions on leaving home
1.—(1) No person who lives in the Tier 4 area may leave or be outside of the place where
they are living without reasonable excuse.
(2) For the purposes of sub-paragraph (1)—
(a) the circumstances in which a person has a reasonable excuse include where one of
the exceptions set out in paragraph 2 applies;
(b) the place where a person is living includes the premises where they live together
with any garden, yard, passage, stair, garage, outhouse or other appurtenance of
such premises.
(3) This paragraph does not apply to any person who is homeless.
Exceptions: leaving home
2.—(1) These are the exceptions referred to in paragraph 1.
Exception 1: leaving home necessary for certain purposes
(2) Exception 1 is that it is reasonably necessary for the person concerned (“P”) to leave
or be outside the place where P is living (“P’s home”)—
(a) to buy goods or obtain services from any business or service listed in Part 3 of this
Schedule, for—
(i) P or for those in the same household,
(ii) vulnerable persons, or
(iii) persons in the same household as a vulnerable person; etc etc

@MissEliza

Surely something only becomes law when Parliament passes it unless we've become a dictatorship.

No, statutory instruments are law by way of the authority of the statue which enables them. www.parliament.uk/globalassets/documents/commons-information-office/l07.pdf

@peridito - yes, that sets out the reasonable excuses for leaving home. It then doesn't qualify them any further eg you can leave home to do x but you must only do it in your tier. Hence you can leave to exercise, by yourself or with your household or with one other person. And that's it. It doesn't say stay local, or stay in your tier.

@Lurkingforawhile - I think it does ,this is for tier 4 .Are you looking for the other tiers ?

PART 1
Restrictions on movement
Restrictions on leaving home
1.—(1) No person who lives in the Tier 4 area may leave or be outside of the place where they are living without reasonable excuse.
(2) For the purposes of sub-paragraph (1)—
(a) the circumstances in which a person has a reasonable excuse include where one of
the exceptions set out in paragraph 2 applies;

@peridito if you read it again you'll see exercise is a reasonable excuse for being outside the place you are living (ie your home). The place you are living doesn't mean the tier. So it's a stay at home order, with reasonable excuses to leave including exercise, work, going to a cemetery etc. But very few of those reasonable excuses are qualified further. Hope I'm explaining it ok?

If you need to travel you should stay local - meaning avoiding travelling outside of your village

How does that work when the nearest school/doctors/shops/ jobs etc are in the town? "They" surely do not expect those living in rural areas to stay put?

@trappedsincesundaymorn that's why I think it's in the guidance only and not in the legislation. So they don't criminalise those in that position.

@trappedsincesundaymorn and in any event you're fine to travel to work and school and medical appointments as required. It's the shopping that would be a concern

[quote Lurkingforawhile]@trappedsincesundaymorn and in any event you're fine to travel to work and school and medical appointments as required. It's the shopping that would be a concern[/quote]
That's my worry as well. Luckily we are not in tier 4 but I'm on the border of a tier 3 that may well go into 4 at the next review. If I stick to the stay local rules the nearest shop is a 20 minute drive away. (there is a shop in the village but it's a very small one with limited stock), but that's in the higher tier area. The nearest in my tier would be a 30 minute drive away in a very large town. Either way I'm screwed.

Well, looks like the decision has been taken out of our hands in any case.

BBC News - Covid: Ireland, Italy, Belgium and Netherlands ban flights from UK
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55385768

Time to move on and and try and salvage a semblance of a Christmas for the kids now. How disappointing.

I suspect we don't know the half of it re. this new virus strain, and more info will be released in the coming days/weeks.

Thanks all for the responses. Hope you all have as good a Christmas as you can.

🎄