End of the Pub

[ElephantWhaleRabbit]

With the pub industry set to lose £650 million in December alone, when many venues make a quarter of their annual turnover, this pretty much looks like the end of the pub, particularly smaller independent venues. A significant part of our culture and history swept away, although I’m sure property developers will be happy.......

@Oblomov20

"My point was clearly that a) if these venues are struggling to keep going just catering to old men"

Oh purlease. That's not what we are talking about. Many pubs do great food and are enjoyed by all age groups.

And this isn't just about pubs. It's about all hospitality, arts, shows, shopping and restaurants and the death of the high street, arts, music. Life. Jobs and the way towns and villages function and survive. Socialising. It affects all of us, is so many ways. Surely you can see that.

Did you actually read my posts? I was clearly talking about the pubs near me and how I could understand why they would be at risk of closure. I literally said that I could see the appeal of country pubs and that it’s sad when a village hub shuts down ffs. 🙄 I didn’t mention anything else as this thread is specifically about pubs.

@timeforanewstart of course there are young people that still drink and go to the pub. But in general, people and young people in particular are drinking less and we have evidence of that trend. In 2017, only 57% of people aged over 16 drank alcohol and those aged 16-24 drank the least of any age group: www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/drugusealcoholandsmoking/bulletins/opinionsandlifestylesurveyadultdrinkinghabitsingreatbritain/2017
And the proportion of young non-drinkers has increased in recent years, while those that do drink are drinking less: www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/10/181009210727.htm

To be honest I actually think one of the biggest threats to the pubs in my area is the council as they are currently cracking down on alcohol-linked anti-social behaviour. They’re currently focusing on off-licences but I’m sure they have their eye on certain pubs too.

Someone up thread referenced the Puritans and I agree with the similarities. All forms of entertainment including pubs were banned by the Puritans for 15 years and yet when the regime changed the sector came roaring back. I work in alcohol marketing and whilst young people are drinking less by volume they are still interested in quality drinks experiences in interesting venues. I firmly believe that whilst the experience of alcohol based socialising might evolve the demand for it will remain strong - sorry folks!

@PattyPan how would they know exactly how many people are drinking its all guesstimate know one has ever asked my 17 year old of he drinks , who knows who is drinking what at home

Pubs and bars have born the brunt to hide the fa t schools are a massive vector

When they have to close the schools there would be massive out cry if people can go out for a pint.

It’s all about image management

Given that drinking at home is perhaps more part of the culture than it was, then the bottleshop bar is the obvious hybrid. Which offers coffees as an alternative to alcoholic drinks.

The idea that young people aren't using cafes and restaurants isn't something that is true.

And we have a really thriving small craft brewery industry which employs far more than the big brewers. These small brewers are doing remarkably well in the wake of Brewdog and if you look in the supermarkets are taking up an increasing shelf space and market share at the expense of some of the older bigger brewers. The trend has been going on for some time in different ways. You have CAMRA which perhaps is more representative of older drivers and then you have a younger for want of a better expression 'hipster' market. But thats expanding too. I know that some of the BrewCos are starting to have a 'CraftBrew' tap because of the demand. And its spreading out of the cities - because its spread onto the supermarket shelf.

So there is a market change going on but that doesn't mean the death of the pub. As i say younger people still want places to meet and chat. They want take out. They want cake and a coffee. So the traditional pub has to find a way to be the old man pub but also be a place which is more appealing to be in than your local dire chain coffee house. Its very much doable. Its just having the foresight to see how things are changing and to strike the right balance to be alk things to all people.

Which was what the pub originally was. A local court house, a hotel, a restaurant, a community meeting house, an escape from the home, a social space.

Nothing has really changed. Its just how we do it.

I think we've got stuck into a mentality that the pub is just for drinking alcohol in. I think thats far from the case and i think the panademic is proving that.

[quote timeforanewstart]@PattyPan how would they know exactly how many people are drinking its all guesstimate know one has ever asked my 17 year old of he drinks , who knows who is drinking what at home
[/quote]
The same way they know about anything, population surveys. The ONS link has a section on methodology, I can’t remember if my other link did but you will be able to find it by searching for the study. There is usually a certain degree of under-reporting on this type of survey of course. The ONS stopped doing that dataset in 2017 though so your son missed his chance

I'm in an area going into tier 3 tomorrow night. The pubs that I have visited since the first lockdown lifted have been very well managed and have felt safe, with strict rules around SD, sanitising, masks on when getting up to go to the loo, ordering drinks through apps and checking in. I've been to my local town centre twice in the same time and it's been heaving. No SD, very few masks being worn, loads of people milling around the market stalls and although shops are limiting numbers entering, no checks once inside and people too close. It seems to me that the high street is far more risky than the pubs, yet shops are staying open. I know things are hard for retail too, this isn't a judgement, just an observation.

@WitchesBritchesPumpkinPants

No, it won't be the end of pubs or theatres or anything.

People WANT to go, probably now more than ever -human nature to want what e can't have.

As soon as a large part of the population is vaccinated & you can go to the pub just fir a drink, they'll be heaving again and yes, sone will close, more 'chains' will survive, but there will still be independents & we can all make up for lost time.

I'm MASSIVELY Covid risk averse, but I'm NOT pessimistic about the future post vaccinations.

I haven't been into a pub/cafe/restaurant since early February, but I will be back in one before May Day.

Here in Wales there is little sign of any financial support from the Welsh Government. Many independent pubs won't last until the good times return. Up here in North Wales we have few cases yet have had virtually all hospitality and attractions shut down. We can't even go to the local nature reserve! Yet there's nothing stopping people going to Chester. Plenty are.

They might close in the short term but they will eventually come back. Maybe not next year or the year after, but they will.

Pubs were already losing money or struggling to break even in a lot of cases and when they are open have to abide by social distancing which means they lose custom as they can only have so many in, regardless of what the demand might be.

How long until they can let people in unrestricted? It'll be well into next year at the earliest. A lot of pubs will be forced to close because they won't be able to pay the rent if nothing else.

But in general, people and young people in particular are drinking less and we have evidence of that trend. In 2017, only 57% of people aged over 16 drank alcohol and those aged 16-24 drank the least of any age group:

Pubs are a dying trade. Younger people don't really go to them and many younger people don't drink these days. When we were 18 we'd be in the pub all the time.

The wet-led pubs tend to be either old man pubs or trendy hipster places. A few pubs will survive because there's a market for a few pints on a Saturday night but that won't get a pub through the week. It's the food that pays the bills. Pubs have had to become defacto restaurants to survive.

There used to be a pub on every corner a lot of the time. The pub has been replaced by the coffee shop because of the trends of younger people.

I think it’s a bit like what’s happening on the high street. Covid is just speeding up what was happening anyway.

I never go in a pub, except for a meal. They’re too noisy and crowded. I tend to meet my friends for coffee, not in a pub.

A local pub near me closed. It was a lovely building. Sainsbury tried to buy it for a metro and wanted to keep the building. So many people protested. Then for a while it became a ‘community pub’ run by the community. Except no one went, and it shut down again.

It was then sold to make way for a block of flats. People protested. And now it’s just falling apart, no one really owns it. An old coaching inn that was really nice.

The idea of pubs is nice, but ultimately if they can’t offer what people want they will close. Just like this did.

No one goes to pubs... but you don’t like going to them because they’re too crowded...

@AlecTrevelyan006

No one goes to pubs... but you don’t like going to them because they’re too crowded...

Yeah, I didn't really get that logic.

How lovely for you if you've not been to a pub since forever and as far as you're concerned, good riddance to the nasty alcoholy places. Good for you. Thousands of people rely on pubs and bars for their livelihoods, and theyre the heart of many communities - particularly rural ones, or poorer ones. Fuck 'em though, eh.

This.
The pubs in my village are a real hub of the community and are used by people of all ages.
I'm really hoping we don't lose them and they can re-open.

It’s the small independent places who do well near me, in normal times they are rammed. I think the massive old men pubs where they nurse a pint for hours have had their day.
I think the breweries haven’t helped. Over inflating prices and making it impossible for someone to make a decent living. I think the industry needs a shake up.

@AlecTrevelyan006

No one goes to pubs... but you don’t like going to them because they’re too crowded...

And also 'I never go to pubs except for a meal' - so 'I never go to pubs, except when I go to pubs'?

It seems to me that the high street is far more risky than the pubs, yet shops are staying open

Absolutely agree. The pubs and restaurant have been thrown under the bus.

Pubs are closing because breweries have lot of them by the bollocks. Its impossible to make a living as a landlord therefore they close and the community lose out. The independent pubs and bars near me are packed to the rafters in non covid times

No evidence of significant spread in either shops or hospitality. You just don’t get the sustained contact there.

Much more so in homes, hence the rise whilst in higher tiers. Also care homes and hospitals

I never go in a pub, except for a meal. They’re too noisy and crowded. I tend to meet my friends for coffee, not in a pub.

Cos all pubs are the same!

facepalm

@XiCi

Pubs are closing because breweries have lot of them by the bollocks. Its impossible to make a living as a landlord therefore they close and the community lose out. The independent pubs and bars near me are packed to the rafters in non covid times

They serve better beer thats why!

The chains serve complete arse.

No they aren’t all the same. But generally my overview of them is that they are.

Is this my fault or the pubs?

In our village we have one independent, two greene kings, 1 punch brewery and 1 hall and woodhouse

They are all quite different and to a certain extent have a different clientele

The hall and woodhouse will stay but i can see us losing one or two of the others which would be a great shame